Das Martina-Upgrade: Sickle Cut Into Your Defense - Road to WWC 2019 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by Lea_Schueller, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    I’m pretty sure Wedemeyer was the one struggling

    WOB’s gonna use Gössling in midfield from now on though, I’m sure. Gunnarsdottir doesn’t have to run back all the time and do passes lo

    Lattwein’s injured
     
  2. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    here's a full interview with MVT
    News :: DFB - Deutscher Fußball-Bund e.V.
    somehow I rather liked reading the interviewee, who mentioned; Horst kept the game flow going.That was so different than Stefi's slowed downed version which had her players tumbling into each other while trying to learn her complicated schemes

    here's a pic from current training camp that might suggest perhaps the girls prefer to be on the playing field?
    49398058_823871197961565_3405496905228156856_n.jpg
     
  3. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Apparently they'll face France 28 February :D
     
  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Complicated schemes....:ROFLMAO:, you give her too much credit.

    That was simply and example of what poor player analysis, and confused team selection will do for a novice coach, trying to rebuild a team used to playing under gradually degrading footballing philosophy of Silvia Neid.

    So with Horst Hrubesch being the opposite of a novice coach, he was able to better work around the systems poor player analysis, and build a relatively competent team with a group of players still lacking a wnt with a truly established identity.
     
  5. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #80 Batfink, Jan 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
    I feel Germany's biggest issue at WC will be breaking down the mid-tier and lower ranked nations. (Meaning nations not ranked in the top 10, but placed with the top 10-20)

    Even during a time period they'v been nothing but horrible to watch, Germany's results against the top ten still remained pretty good.

    But as the last match vs Spain showcased, this team's still incredibly vulnerable as long as it's various coaches are dishonest, or inaccurate, about their own players strengths and weakness within a horribly undefined style/system of play.

    So I don't see how ANOTHER friendly vs France is going to validate MVT's abilities to improve anything. When they've previously faced top ten nations with Jones, and only been comprehensively beaten once while Jones created one of the most disappointing teams Germany's wnt program has ever witnessed.
     
  6. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    the US played a couple of friendlies this last week, a loss vs France where the heavily influenced by Lyon, French simply were faster, stronger, better than the out of season American. What proved scary about the French this time was finally having new, more youth players in starring roles ~~~ Diani, Cascarino & Katato.

    The US did rebound a few days later to beat Spain(in Spain) 1-0. The difference the way Germany & US played Spain is between night & day; because Spain's a very possession minded team, they where slow in building up their attacks. So the US had an easy time just bring their 4 player back line back to defense(even their next 4 players midfield back). Other than taking long shots, Spain was never able to penetrate behind the back line. Obviously that wasn't the case vs Germany who like to send their FB's way up, thus leaving them vulnerable to counters from the flanks(even with a team as slow building like the Spanish)
    Another case in point: the only goal in the game was when Christen Press decided to run with the ball for 50 yards & score an individual goal. Not saying this is a better way than the usual more German way of putting several passes together before scoring, just wish the option should be there

    we'll see what MVT brings to the table!
     
  7. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    But that never happened at any point during the match versus Germany....:confused:

    Facing Germany, Spain simply exploited the large spaces in the central areas of the German defensive third, with their wingers never really exposing Germany's lack of width in that particular match too, or the supposed spaces created by the FB's joining the attack.

    For some unknown reason it was Hrubesch's decision to go back to the attacking but flat 4-4-2, removing his teams DM and CAM from the equation, to see his team completely devoid of any effective tactical approach to potential use swift counters versus Spain.

    Germany simply couldn't dominate the ball, and were tactically awful (just like they were versus Italy for 45 mins), allowing Spain to accomplish exactly what they wanted centrally.
     
  8. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And during this match, who exactly was meant to be producing anything like this on Germany's team...?

    Remember, this was a German 11 featuring Hendrich at RB, Maier as a RAM, with Magull - Däbritz chasing shadows for 90 mins as two completely overwhelmed double 6; and this for a team with no clear approach towards how they wanted to play.

    I mean, you honestly believe a technically strong defense featuring Hendrich - Doorsoun - Elsig - Simon, couldn't have sat deeper with the right protection in front of them, eventually unleashing accurate passing to start swift counters to exploit Spain's various weakness..?

    It's like the senior team is just heading into matches with absolutely zero modern comprehension of the opponents they'll be facing lol.
     
  9. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I mean think... your comparing the confusing approach of a German wnt going through an obvious identity crisis, to the steadfast identity of the USwnt. A USwnt who's only period of potential identity issues, saw them get embarrassed by Denmark during a random friendly, and instantly fire their coach to eventually return to a WC final the same year lol.

    While we've seen Germany limp through an Olympic Gold medal run, later completely embarrassing themselves at the Euro's with a disaster of a team, only to change coaches on the cusp of potential WC qualifying elimination....:speechless:
     
  10. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    France look like tight now their favorites. But they've always been strong during the friendlies season yet manage to flop at the major tournies---4 straight! This time though their finally able to unleash their promising youth players to devastating effect.

    Odd that MTV wants to play then first in her debut. The element of surprise might be in her favor. But another answer might be to look if the NT dominated Bayrtn Munich doesn't have another terrible game against WOB
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I see the DFB's also scheduled friendly matches against China and Japan too.
    But what does this have to do with anything relevant to MVT's visions for the national team..?

    Bayern's recent past has seen them become a team who's tactics constantly come under criticism; but this teams form a potential bigger issue now, because.... reasons...:unsure:

    Even if this Bayern team were leading the league (like they've done in the past), knowing how their coach does things, it's highly unlikely it would instantly correlate towards national team success.
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    In my mind, Simon - Elsig - Doorsoun - Maier currently compose the wnt's most likely first choice defense. With the still highly undecided mid-field and attacking zones of the team being primary areas for Bayern's players to find starting time.

    And we're probably looking at Goeßling taking one of the CM starting roles come the WC too, meaning the national teams potential dependency on the form of the players from one club, doesn't seem very likely over it's short term future.

    ------------------ Schult -----------------
    Maier -- Doorsoun -- Elsig -- Simon
    ---------- Goeßling --- CM ------------
    RW ---------- Marozsan ---------- LW
    ------------------- Popp ------------------

    Hendrich hasn't found a permanent role at Bayern, or the national team, to display the best of what she potentially offers a team. While Magull - Luepolz - Lohmann are the strongest candidates to partner Goeßling in CM. with Däbritz and potentially Schweers strong options to start as wide AM's.

    So you could be looking at a scenario Wolfsburg still has more players in the starting 11, than a more domestically talent packed Bayern side lol.
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yes, there's no guarantees MVT will identify who, or what works best, meaning some key changes could take place, in ways few people ever foresee happening right now.

    But I'm not seeing how the inconsistent nature of Bayern will reflect on the potential future of the senior wnt.

    I mean, Däbritz remains one of the nations best players this season, having a score and assist rate at club level the same as somebody like Harder, who's playing as a CAM within a more stable/well coached Wolfsburg team.

    Showcasing how little club form will effects a national team, if the national see's her regularly deployed on the left, or centrally as a CM/DM.
     
  14. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #89 hotjam2, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    But that back line looked vulnerable vs Spain & you can't always depend on a DM to come to the rescue when the flanks are being exposed(as perhaps your suggesting?). German coaching tactics seem to want the FBs upwards into the attack. But I've seen enough games won or lost based on the opposing FBs dueling each orher/or of which who could push,the other, back into,their half.
    Lil Leo won that battle vs Majri in 2015& thus won the game. But 4 years later. I don't think she can do it again. BM hasn't even started her the last few outings

    With potentially 3 new superstars I see France being favorites. The coach has decided to used the same techniques that of their men's side; hold back & let the other side's defence ruse itself out of their safety net, then quickly counter with deadly accuracy

    And the key is they finally got the players to do it with(Cascarino, Diani & Katato)
    In the meantime both Germany & the US been slow in,bringjnv up their youth.

    Anyway just my opinion. On the other hand, the French coach probably exposing too much what looks like right now the WC winning formula. So their us always that option for opponents to figure a way to beat it
     
  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Germany's defense didn't look vulnerable versus Spain due to their FB's positioning being too advanced; all the major problems posed by Spain came through them attacking Germany through the middle.

    And the reason this happened was mainly thanks to balance of the German team being incorrect (again), forcing both CB's to constantly live in the limbo of never knowing how to defend Spanish forwards correctly.

    This scenario being do they (CB's) allow the Spanish FW's/AM's to walk into the spaces in front of them...
    ----- Doorsoun ---- Elsig -------
    --------------------------------------- DANGER ZONE FOR SPAIN'S ATTACK
    ------ Magull ----- Däbritz --------

    Or do they aggressively move into the danger zone in front of them, leaving opportunities for Spanish mid-fielders to attempt accurate passes into the spaces now clearly behind them.
    ----------------------------------------
    ----- Doorsoun -------------------- DANGER ZONE FOR SPAIN'S ATTACK
    ------------------------ Elsig --------

    ------ Magull ----- Däbritz --------
     
  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Once Spain figured out how easy it was to overwhelm Magull - Däbritz defensively, they simply walked into oceans of potential attacking space that allowed them to maneuver the ball into more favorable shooting opportunities.

    I mean it's simple tactics that you have at least one mid-fielder tasked with the role of covering the defensive space in front of their CB's. And a must if you intend using effective counterattacking football for a team with players like Germany's too.

    So I'm lost on your logic that has Simon or Hendrich being at fault for playing too high....:confused:, when the most obvious flaw for this team vs Spain was the awful mid-field of Gwinn - Magull - Däbritz - Maier not seeming to understand what they meant to be contributing for the team.
     
  17. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL, we get it.... once again your favorite athletically strong France beat one of your other athletically strong favorites the USwnt. But to say the German process of bringing through strong youth talent a slow one is probably incorrect. Because honestly, I'd say it's just been really, really bad.

    It's important to remember that names like Elsig, Simon, Schweers, Hendrich, Dallmann, Bremer, Huth, have all been left on the outside of the senior teams player pool for way too long, while should be stars like Marozsan and Popp have barely accomplished anything to establish themselves as leaders of this team too.

    So after a decade of youth level success, it's not like young stars from those successful German youth teams haven't been introduced; they've just been introduced really poorly to a senior structure lacking any clear direction.
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You look at the potential starting 11 for the WC, and I think it's actually aged around the mid 20's, with only Goeßling standing out as the single player in her 30's, no?.

    So besides a Schüller, or Gwinn, which recent junior level prospect is potentially missing out from starting in this team...? Both Schüller and Gwinn are strong performers, but neither are better than Huth or Däbritz out wide, and I struggle to put Schüller ahead of Popp.

    Plus I like the introduction of Pawollek, but she's surely way behind Hendrich, this being another established player in her mid 20's. And even if Lohmann's been pretty fantastic for her age, is anybody really starting her ahead of Magull or Leupolz..?
     
  19. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #94 hotjam2, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    I wouldn't put Spain too much on a pedestal; their coach been an bit of enigma. He kicked out several of his older players(& done like Vero and Bermudez were quite good in favor or younger ones yet still hasn't quite tapped into to ones that won all those current youth titles. He's picked something like 12 Barca players even though A Madrid has won the league title for the last several years(and it's not that good league ad WOB beat them something like 10-0 in one CL game). Even their few end and have posted that they got,no real world class players. Their insistence of taking so long to take possession by numerous passes make A so easy to get your own defence in place. Austria along with,others showed that during Euros where they where nary able to score in their 4 game stint(this coach hasnt,eeally,changed tactics since!)

    FRANCE; Cascarino is a great technical player. I she was the star of the 2016 WC showing of some phenom dribbling skills. An ACL slowed her down, plus probably needed to play on a different club than Lyon(for more playing time), but I think now she's returning too her prime.

    Katoto is only 20. But she is now the leading scorer in the French League, surpassi g the more heralded Ada. Don't much about Diani, but she does also play for PSG where she's the 5th leading scorer in,the league. Despite loosing several major players last year find itself only 2 points behind Lyon
     
  20. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
  21. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Popp, Marozsan, Däbritz are gonna play if fit, they’re class players

    I’d prefer Popp in the midfield though and Sara on left
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    [​IMG]

    lol, your absolutely correct... she's done.

    Peter even called MVT wanting to know exactly why she wasn't included within the new coaches first ever squad.

    Like MVT not calling her wasn't an obvious and clear sign she's probably not going to part of the wnt's future anymore lol.
     
  23. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I'm not. All I'm highlighting is how many lower ranked nations are now able to find equal footing with Germany, thanks to Germany's insistence on using tactics that appear to be a mix of nonchalant after thought, or amateurish incompetence.

    I mean, even if you ignore Germany's past successes being formed around themes of a well structured and balanced unit, it's hard to argue that the recent decline hasn't seen a cycle of unconvincing coaching play a massive role in the programs overall lack of stylistic identity..?

    See... win or lose, you knew exactly how Spain would play. And yet it was with this knowledge of their opponent, that you still saw Germany's coaches allow their team to take the field once again, without a system that held any sense of tactical awareness; not even maintaining any continuity with the team that just faced Italy a few days prior.

    Meaning Spain were the latest side to expose Germany's tactical naivety once again, and this in areas of the field that had nothing to do with your insistence their FB's always being too high, or out of position.
     
  24. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Reading how MVT asked the players where they think they would be best suited within her team, makes me believe Marozsan could be about to regularly start as a CAM/FW, with Popp potentially being used as a CM too...:cautious:

    I mean, with the knowledge MVT's asked players questions about their preferred roles, I don't see Marozsan or Däbritz being wasted in DM roles anymore. But I wonder where Popp truly considers her best position now, and would she actually provide CM as her final answer when asked about her potential best role on MVT's national team...?
     
  25. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Yes, Peter sound slightly arrogant to me, claiming that she belongs in the squad... :rolleyes: Apparently MVT told her about her weaknesses so I'm pretty sure that the conversation was for about approximately a day :whistling:
    I mean, she did say that nothing suggested that she wouldn't be nominated lol... :cautious:

    Popp in CM with a more holding midfielder (they can balance it out, maybe Gössling), Marozsan as an attacking midfielder and Däbritz out on the left, Germany have a very strong core already in their offense :whistling: Yes sure every team will struggle at points and being exposed as it's a part of the game, but within a well working squad and idea, I see no reason why this team shouldn't at least reach the SFs in the WC considering their draw :whistling:
     

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