Canadian Premier league

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mikehurst21, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    #2551 Unak78, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    [​IMG]



    What do you think about the talked about loan deal between unnamed MLS side and the unnamed CPL club? CPL needs players to fill out rosters, especially if they choose to expand rapidly over the next 5 seasons or so, and it could be a good way to avoid the craptastic bit of crap that is expansion drafts (which are unnecessary imo when you have a world-wide talent base in this sport), but it could lead to CPL teams taking on projects and unwanted college draftees who will be recalled at unfavorable times if/when MLS sides become depleted by competitions and need bodies.

    CPL teams would be wise to negotiate favorable terms on the deals that ensure that their own interests as a first division league are met. In other words, they cannot allow themselves to be treated like the USL sides have been when these deals have been negotiated with them. MLS sides treat them like the MLB uses their AA and AAA affiliates and recall them whenever they want, even in the middle of a title push by the USL side.

    So if CPL clubs do business, they have to ensure for themselves that the life of a loan deal is concrete. No mid-season recalls, and options to buy if necessary with a fixed price before-hand. They can do business, but it must be business between two business entities, not the type of subservient deals that USL clubs put up with because their league is owned by MLS.

    BTW, have you heard who the teams in question are? Atlanta United and Barco maybe? Gio dos Santos from Galaxy?
     
  2. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I'm all for loans between any leagues with CPL. Teams and the league made clear that they wouldn't be treated like USL sides. There was a bit of bad faith from TFC and Vancouver but hopefully, they got the message that this league isn't going away.

    As of now, we don't know which MLS teams and which players are being considered
     
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  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  4. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    [​IMG]


    ...so what could this mean? Scottish system? In all, it will be difficult going at the bottom of the table until pro/rel gets established...
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We're also scratching our heads over this... We have no clue.

    Perhaps the Gold Cup break would give the league the idea of a one off "Apertura and Clausura" format with the winner of both facing of during the last day of the schedule for the cup but it's being done in Mexico.

    I don't know...
     
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  6. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    I kinda wish that they'd be a bit more forthcoming on some of these things given that training camps have already opened for MLS sides, but they're all busily working on filling out rosters, so understandable; and they start their season later so schedule release won't be as early. But they could be releasing kits right now to keep people occupied and get the word out...
     
  7. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I was told that all the kits are ready and some have seen them. I think they want the roster filled before releasing them. They are following a marketing plan ensuring that they are constantly being talked about and it's working to my surprise
     
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  8. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Fair enough, but I think that the Christmas season would have been opportune. That said I can only defer to the marketing experts, they're getting paid to make this work.
     
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  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Kelowna, Okanagan Valkey in British Columbia might get a team
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  13. RocketRobin

    RocketRobin Member

    Canada
    Feb 3, 2007
    Toronto
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
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    But that same article says there can be only seven 'foreign players' (including Americans) on the roster so it would be tough for a season to maintain seven imports being on the field at the same time.
     
  14. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Halifax at 3000 season tickets sold. Promising.

    I've heard 6,000 as the attendance number needed for break even for many teams.

    I think some teams will have no problem with reaching this number, others will struggle.
     
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  15. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Its certainly doable and a relatively sustainable level for early going. You can get half of that with hardcore football fans alone so appealing to those early is wise.
     
  16. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    If that's the case then the structure of the loan deals, not the amount, should make the difference. There should be no limits on loan deals with options to purchase for instance. Also if MLS sides are willing to pay full costs on guaranteed season long loans then that only helps mitigate costs for CPL sides.
     
  17. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    So far Pacific FC seems to have stuck to thw concept of signing exclusively BC/Canadian players. I've always wanted to see a new North American side take a stab at building a club identity in this manner so it will be interesting to see how far they go with it and, if so, how successful it will be...
     
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  18. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Athletic Pacific? Chivas de Van Isle?

    The nicknames are easy.
     
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  19. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Which is perhaps the biggest difficulty the CPL faces - they need basically every team to succeed in order to have enough markets for a league. (Because if these markets can't make it, there's no way the league succeeds if it goes on to smaller markets.)

    Of the seven inaugural teams, five of them are going to be playing in stadia that seat between 5000 and 6500. So for most of the league break even = sell out.

    I'm hoping they can do it with first year buzz and then take it from there.
     
  20. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Well let's not forget that they haven't yet even touched the Quebec market yet. But I agree that these markets need to succeed in order to realize the more grand aspirations. The MLS clubs will help in raising their profile through CCL matchups, no doubt... I kinda wish they'd started doing this sooner though. The 5000 avg number is essentially a doable number if the hardcore support is there to bolster it. That means selling it to even the type of fan that might be considered a Euro-snob here.

    I think that this is why the intent of going pro/rel is important here; it offers a selling point despite the existence of MLS and possibly a very modest level of play in the early going. Hardcore fans will buy into the idea of supporting a local club even if it's not glamorous so long as it's part of the traditional working-class football culture where the clubs fortunes can rise and fall. That's why MLS fanbases don't always get alot of the credit that they deserve; because of the closed system, alot of fans abroad don't think that they've had to earn it despite the fact that there are now numerous MLS sides that did start out gaining support in USL or NASL.

    Given that the cost of entry is so low, and the intent for pro/rel is up-front, it also mitigates the risk of the ownership groups getting involved and incentivices future entries at other levels at a similar cost. In addition, the attrition rate at the top fight can one day be off-set by this low-entry factor; there will always be lower level clubs entering the system and hopefully moving up. The competition with MLS sides will be the galvanizing factor for some time to come. @Robert Borden may disagree with me on this point, but the three MLS sides have been on Canadian tv for about a decade now and MLS has become a legitimate Big 5 sport in these two countries. It may not be Real Madrid, but playing against a TFC team that was within pks of winning the CONCACAF Champions League against a storied side with a hundred year history like Chivas makes a match with them a major affair. Playing against a Montreal Impact side that has been in operation continuously since 1993, has made multiple successfuly CCL runs and has won the Voyageurs Cup more than any other Canadian side is a major affair. Playing against a Vancouver Whitecaps side that has been in the zeitgeist of BC football off and on since the 70s even playing matches against Pele's Cosmos is also a major affair.

    As far as being on this side of the pond above a certain line of latitude that is what passes for historic; it's the closes thing that North America has and it's a tool that the CPL would be foolish to ignore. It makes sense for them then to build up the profile of those teams prior to matches against them because the Voyageurs Cup matches can be a significant fan recruitment tool. And 5000 fans isn't an unreasonable bar; the support is there you simply have to galvanise it. Even for the Euro-snobs who look down on MLS, the David-Goliath aspect of V-Cup matches will still be a draw and MLS can be sold as the Evil Empire in this case that the pure CPL clubs must conquer in order to spread the faith of footballing purity. There's no limit to the manner of ways that you can sell this in the first year.
     
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  21. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    ^

    Quebec is the one market they aren't in yet that I think could work without being too much of a stretch. (Well, technically Ottawa too, but that will sort itself.)

    I'm really hoping they can pull the necessary 5000 or 6000 in all their markets. The closest comparison we have right now is USL. There are ten USL markets that were above 5000 last year and a few more within shouting distance. So it can be done in similar(ish) size cities. It's just that the CPL doesn't have much margin for error and it seems optimistic to think it will work everywhere.

    As for pro/rel, they are doing it right if they intend to have pro/rel by introducing it from day one. That said, I'd be happy to see a strong, stable D1. What I've seen suggests the CPL wants D2 to be national as well. I'm thinking they are on the edge for the number of markets for D1 so I'm really skeptical there are enough markets to also have a national level D2 since those teams would also need to draw ~5000.
     
  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We will be living in CPL 1.0 era where for year 1, ~5k or 6k means they break even. The league is looking long term and want to be sustainable as soon as possible hence having lower operating costs than trying to go all out from the outset and bleeding money in an attempt to sign big names or to compete with other leagues.

    The leagues strategy is to utterly ignore USL and MLS and do it's own thing to be sustainable and grow from there.

    By 2026, CPL will enter 2.0 where average attendances will have increased, hopefully doubled or aims too by upgrading stadiums and increase revenue which allows teams to sign more expensive players.

    2026, is also the year CPL plans on launching the Division 2. By then, CPL will have proved that a national league with an average of 5k is doable on modest budget. I think that's the reasoning here. Once CPL goes 2.0, I wouldn't be surprised that more investors could be seeking to start new teams as they will have a 7 year track record... which is a big ask as of 2 years ago as there was nothing than past failures.

    Also, by 2026, CPL and the world cup should be drawing way more attention to the sport where smaller markets will want into the league, making the foundation for Division II realistic. Places like Saguenay, Sherbrooke, Durham Region, Niagara Region and Kelowna are among areas interested in a club but most like more fit for D2. Those places could draw 5k with proper marketing

    We have to be thankful that Bob Young made it happen.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  24. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

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