England Senior Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    This Fergie / Joe Cole story is nothing to do with Chelsea .... the only part Chelsea and Jose played was to turn a thoroughbred into a cart horse .
     
  2. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    In terms of his work rate? He isn’t a particularly well rounded player. I can’t help but feel though that he could be worth a try at least - if only for his ability to create openings for others.
     
  3. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    He has about 200 league appearances.
     
  4. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, that's my sentiment. Some people seem to have disdain for players who are injured a lot, it's similar to the disdain boxing fans have for "chinny" fighters. The player cant help it, they don't deserve contempt for their misfortune.
     
  5. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Cole was a skillful player but he was no where near gazza. For all gazza's skill and technique, it was his football brain that made him special . He always seemed to find space and in his latter years for england, when he had lost his pace, he was able to play as a deep playmaker, and dictate games for England with his passing like Modric does for Croatia now.
     
  6. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    He deserves sympathy if anything . The guy had the talent and the desire to be one of the greatest midfield players in world football and through back luck and misfortune he failed to reach his potential.

    And if you want to get technical about it . He was a far more gifted footballer than beckham, gerrard and lampard all who achieved far more in their footballing career.
     
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  7. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yeah that's because Maddison isn't that good . Grealish is the player you should be looking to play the number ten role . If he can ever get himself out of the championship.
     
  8. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Yep.

    Because of his stupid sending off the other week and his stupid penalty tonight.

    He was also bloody awful at Palace at the weekend.

    He's not helped by Puel being an absolute moron.
     
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  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    But it makes it sound like Fergie was somehow stopped from buying him when he could have bought him when he was older. He just chose not to for whatever reason.

    If he'd bought him when he was a lot younger he'd probably have languished on the bench.

    At least at WHU he actually got to play and when he came to us he got plenty of playing time. The last season he was at WHU he played 36 times. The first season with us he played 35. IIRC he didn't get to go to the 2000 WC because he'd broke his ankle, (or leg... I forget), when he was STILL at WHU so the idea we somehow ruined the guy and got him injured is obviously nonsense.
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ... a 'cart horse'??? :D

    Dearie me :(
     
  11. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    It's poetic license..
     
  12. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    We're talking 13 , 14, 15 etc
    Given his success bringing young talents through the system and winning the league with youngsters why assume he'd of been on the bench ??
     
  13. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Tbf, he wasn’t on his own with regard to his penalty last night! There were some awful efforts tbh and non worse than Sterling’s and if you’re going to take a panenka penalty then make sure you score otherwise you look a bit daft and doesn’t exactly go down well with the fans. I really think coaches need to sit down with players and take them through a collection of Alan Shearer dvd’s on taking penalties. If you’re unsure of where to place the penalty then at least just put your laces through the ball and hope the keeper dives and if you miss you don’t get hammered by the fans. Don’t know what’s going on with this stutter crap when taking pens these days!
     
  14. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    To come back to his actual performances, I've watched almost every Leicester game to follow his progression, and he's been excellent most of the time. Clinical with the ball, creates chances, scores. Was particulary brilliant in the big games vs Arsenal and MU. One issue is the midfield pair behind him, 2 workhorses who struggle to find him between the lines, Leicester needs a more technical CM.
     
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  15. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    What's weird is Leicester players scored 5 out of 5 the previous round....
     
  16. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Leicester fans have been complaining about the 2 defensive midfielders all season. Don't need both of them.

    Maddison (and others) are suffering from the fans annoyance with Puel.
     
  17. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Joe Cole was always going to be a peripheral player at a really top side imo, whether that is Chelsea or Man U. Some players ate just like that, maybe that is Zaha's fate, who may even be more gifted than Joe Cole.
     
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  18. greengrass81

    greengrass81 Member

    Manchester United
    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    His potential was way overrated .I remember all the hype about him when he was at west ham. Cole was the only England player at the time who could do to a certain extent zidane like things with the ball but he had no real influence on games . i think to a large degree the fact he had zidane like skill or control caused people to mistake skill for actual football ability .

    He had all the tricks to beat a couple of players but he had no real end product . His football brain was average and his brain wasn't able to keep up with his exceptional skill and flair which is why he never became a world class player.
     
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I saw some figures a while back that showed that, when he wasn't injured, he was averaging just over 30 games a season with us. He's also got a CL runners-up medal, 3 EPL winner medals, 2 FA cups, a football league cup and a community shield.

    In all honesty, that's a reasonable return.

    Would he have done better at yanited? Would he have played more games or been injured less? Hmm...possibly! But it's a LONG way from certain. All this counterfactual crap is just people whinging because they don't like the side he DID choose to go to and who DID want to stump up the money for him.
     
  20. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    He never became world class bc he stayed in England and was used in a position that didn't suit him. I know it was finished the day he started to run in behind the back 4 waiting for Dogba's flicks. Or when he spent most of the game vs Bayern at right back. Some ppl thought it was great, I thought it was a tragedy. He could have been Ortega. A career is very fragile and ppl don't always realize how important development / choices / opportunities are. I saw Zidane at 20/21, he showed glimpses but was a shadow of the player he became later. Like Waddle - who I heard was very under appreciated in England - Joe Cole should have left the country earlier.
     
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  21. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    No ..... to both

    [emoji4]
     
  22. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    He could've been Ortega? What does that even mean? Ortega had a very mixed career. Like saying 'he should've been Gazza'. I don't get them comparisons or what they're even meant to represent as the peak Cole didn't reach.
     
  23. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    #1998 sharpovic, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    I think my point is pretty clear, sorry if you don't understand it. Bizarre for someone who follows youth football not to get the point of development though. To make it even clearer : Joe Cole was never a right winger. And Ortega was a great player, great career or not I'm talking style of player here, with him in the team England wouldn't have needed penalties to beat Argentina in 98; Ince Batty Beckham and Scholes chased shadows in midfield the whole game.
     
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  24. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ???

    Joe Cole was born in Nov 1981. Not sure how much he could have contributed at that age. He was then injured, (whilst he was at west ham), at the time of the 2000 EC.
     
  25. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    I'm talking about Ortega here mate. Meaning if we had someone like Ortega in our midfield we wouldn't have chased shadows the whole game
     
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