It's official: Berhalter hired

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bharreld, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. Borrachin

    Borrachin Member+

    Feb 28, 2006
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They only got him because he has a clause in his contract that he can leave if Barcelona or Real Madrid comes calling, Manchester City was not added so that was a win for NCFC!!
     
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  2. #8or#6

    #8or#6 Red Card

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 15, 2017
    How do we know that in national team manager terms? We don't, because he's never been one. If you're a club manager you have the opportunity to work, organize, and drill the side. There is a preseason, a season, a post season, and an off season. A manager can structure his goals around these seasons and expect objectives to be met. The team is paying the freight, the manager is their direct boss. They have to do what the manager wants, or lose their paycheck.

    None of this is true with Berhalter as a national team manager. There are a few relevant things we can know, such as formations he prefers, man management skills, relationship to his superiors, ie, is he able to convince people up the food chain of the benefits of his changes? Does he have the requisite courage to go against the prevailing winds, and defend his position to his superiors? Is he a creative thinker?

    Obviously, those that think Berhalter was a good choice think he successfully answers those questions that can be known, and think it outweighs the importance of the unanswerable questions. So it's not entirely a question of faith if there are satisfactory answers to the questions that can be answered. I haven't seen them yet, but I guess others have.
     
  3. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Ensuring more disadvantaged people end up playing pro sports is taking advantage of them how exactly?
     
  4. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's probably waiting to see if mega-star WTF90 can file a switch.

    I'm sweating balls waiting to hear.

    FMF didn't make the same absurd claims USSF did. It's not quite the same deal (@Excellency I'm not saying you said it was).
     
  5. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting set of somewhat objective criteria. Unfortunately I did not see you present any summary of such an analysis? Is it because that analysis would lead to the same conclusion which is that "the USSF after failing to qualify for WC2018 and having over a year to hire a replacement just hired a mediocre MLS coach when clearly more successful MLS coaches such as Martino (with 2 international HC experience) , Marsch (with international USMNT assistant coach experience) , Vermes, and Pareja were available."

    Perhaps "the masses" you referred would not be able to understand your sophisticated analysis much as we could never understand your repeated suggestions that the US would be more effective if Klinsmann replaced Jermaine Jones with Wil Trapp!
     
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  6. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In conversations with Berhalter, here are a few thoughts/opinions that stand out:
    • He thinks the US has over-relied on the press given conditions during WCQ
    • He is going to try Pulisic in a number of spots with the goal of seeing where he can make the most impact
    • Adams and McKennie seem to be the CM front-runners
    • Trapp does not sound like a lock starter
    • He was not involved in Sarachan's style of play
    • Poise in distribution is going to be a key factor in choosing CBs

    Clearly, he intends to use more of the ball than the US historically has. Which makes me wonder... Does the US have the wide and creative players to make use of the ball in possession? And will CONCACAF refs allow the US to play Berhalter's style, or are they going to let opponents continue to chop down US players on the ball? It all sounds good up front. But this ideal falls apart if a possession-based approach yields few opportunities as we saw with Klinsmann early in his tenure.
     
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  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Thanks. Good stuff.

    I just can't help but feel, however, that against any Hex-or-better-level competition on the road, or Mexico and Costa Rica at home, this is not the approach that works to our greatest strengths. Our best strength right now I strongly suspect is the ability of our athletically gifted younger guys in the press to be able to cover every blade of grass and make trouble for the other side, and to profit by getting Pulisic to be able to take guys on and make something happen in and around the box when we can get the other side to cough the ball up, which I think will happen often. We simply need our CBs to be mobile and solid enough to cover for the occasional breakaways that are bound to occur, and while I initially thought that Brooks and Miazga collectively had that covered, I'm now less sure.

    Fullback is once again a likely weakness this cycle, the right side less so than the left, but on both sides we'd have to rely on less capable players than we would in most of the rest of the field.
     
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  8. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    How different is that from how Mexico plays?
     
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  9. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    What I’ve heard him allude to is it’s hard to press 90 minutes with that intensity in the climates we have to play. He seems to rather press selectively and work to control space on both sides of the ball.
     
  10. #8or#6

    #8or#6 Red Card

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 15, 2017
    Not demeaning your efforts to expose this, but I'm disappointed in the answers

    -The effect of heat on players, esp Europeans has been widely discussed
    -Any manager would try him in multiple spots, like Arena with Donovan
    -Widely known for a year
    -Nobody is ever a 'lock starter' esp a 27 yo above average MLS player
    -If he didn't have a voice, why not? He really didn't know he'd be manager until after he was named?
    -Maybe one point that's not obvious, but nevertheless, of small importance in gleaning his methodology. As a CB he was a good distributor, so it makes sense. Will this free us from a 6 coming back, like Bradley, to take control? Hope he disliked that as much as I did.

    Maybe he was just being cautious in the early days of his reign, but the answers seem too vanilla to make much of an analysis, much less conclusions about his objectives.
     
  11. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    It’s all high level and vanilla. It’s what you expect from a new coach. I thought the vid on mls website was a great mix of high level principles while helping us understand how it will be distinctive
     
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  12. bharreld

    bharreld Member

    Jan 26, 2008
    Westlake, OH
    Why be a turd like this and then post bad info? Susaeta is one of the VERY few people that post anything insightful on here.

    -so what?
    -Berhalter hasn’t really addressed this anywhere in the multiple interviews I’ve heard/read (maybe the press conference?)
    -McKennie/Adams have never started together in CM although most of us would like to see it
    -Wil Trapp is 25 and it would make a ton of sense for GB to at least start with him
    -just an interesting nugget
    -people who like soccer and the national team enjoy reading about stuff like this

    Some of us enjoy these obvious/boring insights that you are obviously much too intelligent for. You should probably check r/soccer for people more on your level.

    PS - I don’t post much so I won’t be arguing any further with you on here.
     
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  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think the most interesting facet of Tata's interlude in Atlanta was his use of Garza and Gressel as wb's. Berhalter's approach is at an aboriginal level. The value Tata got from his wb's was pure gold.
     
  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You can ensure that disadvantaged can play pro sports? Go get em. More power to you. I didn't know that can be done. Let us know how you get on
     
  15. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Really not sure what your point is. I think you’re just trying to do a clever insult and messing it up. ;-)
     
  16. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Ton of sense" is overstating it a bit when we have "a year's worth of games" that show Trapp is not someone to "start with".

    That said, I'm with you on the rest!

    :)
     
  17. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brace yourselves for the "Mourhino to manage the Nats" posts.
     
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  18. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mourhino won't manage the Nats, but I'm worried ManU will be after Berhalter.
     
  19. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mourinho would have been an interesting choice. He uses the midfield as a unit in a 4-3-3 or 4-1-3-2. But he's borderline crazy and might have been as ineffective as Klinsmann.
    I guess Berhalter might turn out as effective as Martino, Pareja, Klinsmann, or Mourinho would have been with this current brood of players?
     
  20. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a fair shout and I might have wanted him a few years ago. Now it appears he has come unglued, so hard pass for me.

    I do hope he ends up taking the LA Galaxy job though.
     
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  21. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yes, if you view the Crew this year as a system to get Zardes a touch in the 6 yard box, then what GB is thinking is a system where the goal is to get Pulisic on the ball between the defense and midfield.
     
  22. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT




    I’ve done it before, in various mediums, so I’ll hit the highlights.

    Berhalter has implemented an Eredivisie style, positional play system with a team whose owner has been trying to create the conditions to allow himself a public pretext to move the team to a hipper city where his mistresses like to spend more time. It’s roughly similar to the plot of the film “Major League” starring Charlie Sheen, Wesley Snipes, Tom Berenger, and Rene Russo.


    So patterns over time, adaptability, and resiliency.

    Here’s a pattern, adapting patterns of play to suit his ST’s qualities. He made his team think about how his striker can be useful in buildup and what type of service they like and are most effective at finishing. In Zardes’ breakout year I pointed out how he scores a large share of goals with his first-touch, on the move. With each of his forwards Berhalter has taken this kind of insight and made the team base their decision making around it, he has systematized that so that it’s repeatable.

    The type of thinking that looks at what a player is good at and structures team movement and roles to maximize it, especially when it comes to chance creation is a hallmark of Eredivisie management (think Bradley and late runs or Beasley and long throughballs). Beyond the previous example I think it shows up in how the team creates space for Higuain to operate, by stretching the backline (wide and deep) and inviting the opponent’s midfield forward. Then there’s the understanding of the danger of runs off of Pipa’s movement and his ability to spray passes. Also think of Trapp’s deep passing, Finlay’s wide forward role, Meram’s success as an inverted winger, and the fullback play (this year also seeing some Pep style narrowness based on the matchup).

    Adaptability, is a bigger unknown. Resilience is an outcome from adaptability. It’s about overcoming adversity. The Kamara, Higuain rivalry caused some pain. The lack of attacking options this season and overall depth has required tweaks to balance.

    Berhalter’s success, what there is of it, has largely come with a deep distributor and a fairly classic 10. He has changed how his team approaches the game when facing high pressing opponents. This season he has made the team more defensive to adjust for a lack of productive attackers. This provides some evidence that he can deviate from his preference but his ability to maintain that to suit a different talent mix is unknown. Significantly what we don’t know is if he can adjust to having different players in those spots in the team’s spine.

    As pointed out we don’t know if he can implement what he does with our talent under the constraints of a camp. He has said that he thinks the concepts and way he likes to play is simple. I largely agree, on an individual level. Putting it all together is the real art. As many of our players are in Europe they should have quite a bit of exposure to core concepts.

    Beyond what Berhalter can do the questions should be is that what we want and are there better options at executing it. I think the concepts can be adapted to fit our needs but I’m not sure if Berhalter can do it, he doesn’t have an extensive track record.

    As to your last spurious point. If anyone, I had Williams taking over for Jones and I didn’t think Klinsmann could use Trapp well because he was a bad manager incapable of implementing a possession system.
     
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  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
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  24. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Imagine where that ranks Tata.
     

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