The things we hear returns - 2018 edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by wh1s+1eR, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    If you felt that strongly the protest was right, why didn’t you wave down the flag?
     
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  2. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    #752 Sam_C, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    In the moment I made the wrong decision for no good reason other than not wanting to make an ass out of some guy I don't know. I won't be making that mistake a second time, I can tell you that much.

    On that note, how do you guys deal with that type of situation?
     
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  3. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #753 IASocFan, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    I don't take wave downs personally and hope my ARs don't either. If I'm concerned about their feelings, I'll address at halftime or after the game. "I have to call what I see."

    If I think my AR saw something I missed, I'll go with my AR. And discuss later if appropriate.
     
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  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Wave downs can certainly be an issue with some refs. But ultimately, on fouls, I’ll wave down, and talk about it at half/after. Certainly reffing with someone you don’t know and had minimal/no pregame makes it harder. But any decent ref knows that the R is ultimately responsible, and an AR that gets bent out of shape by a wave down is likely to be challenging in other ways, too.

    One other thought—I’m far less likely to wave down an AR on less important calls. TI at midfield? Unless it’s realy clear, I’m just going with it and saving wave downs for things that are more important.
     
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  5. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I get good AR’s, I tell them to call fouls, just adapt to my threshold for them so we’re on the same page. I have signals for tightening it up and loosening it up. In a 70-90 minute game it’s likely I’ll miss something, especially if I’m shielded by 3 players or the shirt pull is occurring when the player’s back is to me. When I get not so good or less experienced AR’s, I tell them call fouls if you feel comfortable but don’t take it personally if I wave you down.
     
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  6. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    That was pretty much my way of doing things. Younger or less experienced AR's, have them focus on ball out of play and offside. It was usually something like, "Have I worked with you before? No? How many games have you done?" If not much experience, "OK, don't worry about calling fouls. I'll cover that. Watch for the offside calls. And be sure you stick with the 2nd to last defender - if you're in position when you make the call, it's a lot easier to sell to the crowd."

    If you decide to wave an AR down, or conversely to call something in their purvey that they don't call, be prepared to get it wrong. I did that on an offside call - I made the call because I was sure the player was off, the AR later said no. It didn't help that the field was laid out skewed to the fence line, so my perspective was off. As I recall, it could have been the tying goal and it was late in the game. Ouch.
     
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  7. refjack951

    refjack951 Member

    Nov 25, 2018
    Back to the topic-

    I was doing a U12 game that had a full crew with a noob in the middle, I was AR2. He was doing a good job, kids were playing well, coaches were behaving, pretty much a good, smooth match so far, then there was "that parent". Seems that all the parents decided to have "college day" and wear the colors and regalia from whatever school they graduated from or supported. "That parent" was the sole person from his college, he was also being quite obnoxious and complaining about the kid in the middle. Call it a flash of divine inspiration or whatever, at a stoppage goal kick, he was screaming for a corner by himself. So I just walked up to where he was sitting on the touch. Stood by him for a moment, scratched my chin and said- "Sir, I think I've found your problem here. All you learned at your school was how to say 'would you like fries with that?' " He looked at me for a moment, unsure of how to respond but, like putting blood in the water, it was on like Donkey Kong with the rest of the parents harassing him over his choice of college. It was so effective, he left the touch and sat about 15yds away and said nothing more. After the match, the parents came over and thanked me for getting rid of "that guy" when all I did was question his choice of educational institution, they did the rest.

    Sometimes a little humiliation works wonders. Game continued, kids had a good time. No more static from Mr. Fries. Yes I know we have no authority to eject parents but most of them don't know that and technically, I didn't eject him, I just made an observation.
     
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  8. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    :laugh: @refjack951 I think we are all going to highly enjoy channeling you as the guy who says the things we wanted to say but thought better of it. Cheers.
     
  9. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have to be careful talking to parents like that. You never know who is watching/listening. And everybody has a smartphone. That means video.

    You mentioned in another thread that refs shouldn't interact with coaches, that our focus should be on the field. I would say that should be the same for spectators. I know it is hard to resist the urge, but it is necessary. Interacting with spectators is a recipe for disaster. It is only a matter of time before it blows up in your face.
     
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  10. RespectTheGame

    May 6, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I get the idea, but personally I never have found worth in criticizing anyone who does an honest day's work. I don't like it when fast food workers are denigrated, nor garbagemen nor custodians or cafeteria workers nor anyone else who has a job that is not perceived as glamorous or "worthy."

    Not trying to dump on your response, but as someone who grew up in a lower class household I find such attitudes insulting to many people who work hard. I know you didn't mean it that way, but what if someone's mom watching the game works at a quick serve food operation...
     
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  11. refjack951

    refjack951 Member

    Nov 25, 2018
    I work construction and sometimes tweaking the nose of BMW/Porsche types is just irresistable. Don't take things personally. Live will be miserable if you do. Took me a while to learn it.
     
  12. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is a "BMW/Porsche type"? Just because someone chooses to own a nice/expensive car, doesn't give you the right to judge what kind of person you think they are. Sounds to me like you have some personal stuff that needs to get worked out.
     
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  13. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    LOL
    Oh, you're serious. I thought you were riffing on the noble fast food worker. Which would have been funny:
    The noble BMW owner...
    LOL
     
  14. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    I think refjack951 is "jacking" with all of us. He's obviously saying things to get us riled up. His two responses to a player and now a parent are so out of line with what a referee should do, come on people, don't fall for the bait.
     
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  15. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    "I completely lost it with this JV boys coach last night and ended up refjacking him. I feel bad about it, but it is what it is."
     
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  16. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    The last tournament I did was a (w)rec(k) tournament. Every year there is at least one game where the spectators are off the charts. This is the second straight year where the police were called because of the spectators, though neither one in games I did.

    U10G solo, and the spectators on one end went nuts as the ball probably went out. NONE of the players acted like it went out and I did not see the whole ball cross the line. The ball then went out for a goal kick, but the spectators got loud calling for a throw in for the attacking team. I said, probably too loudly, "my linesman didn't flag it." One said "You don't have a linesman." I said "Exactly! Four years ago at this very tournament, we had a full crew for this age. But this year we can't get enough referees to tolerate how you folks are acting. So instead of three younger, faster referees, you good folks are stuck with one old, fat guy. (I think that is the fourth time I've used that line now). Keep on and there won't be any referees to work this tournament."

    That was by far the worst behavior I have had this year of anywhere I have been (ten different complexes, I think). I've read here and seen how others handle things, and I mean to try them. But they don't come to mind quick enough. I'm just glad I don't do high school. I hear far more horror stories in those games than the U9 - U12 games I usually see.
     
  17. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, for those who stalk the forum and don't always interact: this is a great way to eventually have a parent throw a sucker punch to the back of your head while you're focused on the game because they were publicly embarrassed. If parents are being actually out of control, get the coaches involved.
     
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  18. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    I think it starts at the top. As soccer grows more popular in the U.S., it follows that more people watch it, and that is where players learn their behavior.
    The people at the very top (think FIFA and IFAB) are acutely aware of how grass roots football is suffering with a lack of referees and why. In 2016 they decided to do something about it. See this story from 2016 as one of many from that period.
    https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0720/803601-premier-league-to-clamp-down-on-dissent/
    How long did that last?
    Now compare how dissent is treated with say Rugby. Look at the video (link below) and also look at the comments section. You can see an overwhelming culture difference of accepting referees decisions...right or wrong. Just don't dissent.


    This is one example of where "trickle down" DOES work. But it must start at the top. Oh ...and what does this have to do with parents? If they absorb a culture where it's OK for players to dissent and protest, then monkey see...monkey do.
     
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  19. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Last night 8:15 start u14 girls. Its cold but not awful. Visitors are from 40 miles away. They might get home by 11!

    Late in match, home team trailing by 2-0. Visiting goalkeeper makes on absolute mess of a pass back to her by deflecting it high in the air, and of course, she catches it.

    We set up the indirect free kick, and a parent yells: “It has to be a soccer move!”, mixing his sports up. Of course, it wasn’t a “soccer move” just a tap and a goal....kick.
     
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  20. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    I suppose the parent could have been confusing pass back rules with a defender touch in an offside situation. Soccer move = deliberate play? Still amusing.:)
     
  21. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, there is that commercial with a BMW-driving football coach who acts like a few parents I've had the displeasure to come across.
     
  22. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    From a referee's game report, league championship game, men's O-30 or O-40. Attacker kicks the ball, in the penalty area. Defender, attempts to defend. Hand and ball come together. Ball rebounds to the attacker, who shoots and scores. Attacker is FURIOUS with the referee for not calling deliberate handling. Will not let it go! He finally gets a caution for dissenting from the referee's decision to give his team a goal instead of a penalty kick. And the attacker's team won by a one goal margin.
     
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  23. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's hoping that the attacker's teammates were attempting to pull him away and gag him during the dissent.....
     
  24. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Sounds more like a O-toomanyshotstothehead league.
     
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  25. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I had a U12 girl get tripped up in the penalty area, keep her balance, and score. She then gave me a death stare, presumably for not calling the foul. I wanted to ask her if she wanted me to pull the ball from the goal and give the PK, but I thought better of it.
     
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