Post-match: USA vs England 11/15/2018

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And in the center the perfect melding of the two.
     
  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    You seem to be someone who just likes to have a player with a reputation you like better in place. Acosta is one of the worst CM defenders I can remember suiting up for the NT. You think Trapp is bad defensively (he's not, just doesn't defend in a way that certain types of fans would notice), try watching Acosta's defense closely. Paulinho, Leon Goretzka, Aaron Ramsey. That type of player. He's not a holding mid. He's a very offensive minded #8.

    You are just talking in vague generalities, as well. What specifically is Trapp not doing well? Who specifically are better options? If your answer is "not playing defense" and "Kellyn Acosta", I think that tells the story here.
     
  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    You know why.

    Consider the lineup.

    Guzan-Getting criticized, and also has had a decent European career before returning to MLS.
    Yedlin-Europe
    Miazga-Another Europe
    Brooks-The promise-land
    Villafana-Getting criticized
    Trapp-Getting criticized
    McKennie-Promise-land
    Green-MLS equivalent league that is located in the correct continent
    Pulisic-Europe
    Wood-Europe
    Weah-European third division
     
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  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    He can't win. Last season he plays terrible under coaches who played him nearly every game. It was supposedly a good season due to his minutes. This season he plays really well for a team that rotates a lot, and he doesn't play in one important game. He's now "struggling and lost his spot" because of it. He plays better than any US player against a good opponent. Not good enough. Needs to carry the team on his back.

    I saw some criticizing his shot in the first half that Pickford saved. I thought it was a good idea. He tried to beat him at his near post after faking the far post. A very good keeper made a good read. Sometimes you need to tip your cap to a nice play by the other team.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Cant say for sure but letting the rock go a half tick earlier might have made it harder on the keeper.
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think you are better than this type of analysis.

    A lot of the analysis about Trapp's defensive contributions seems to center around a lack of flash-plays. Some people want to see him make illegal tackles or to be shown far out of position trying to pressure the far. What purpose does that serve for the team? If he wins those sequences, it might look great for the highlights, but these are risky plays for the team. This is not Trapp's style of defense. He tries to contain attacks, not find the ball and stop them. Just because you don't like his style of defense doesn't mean you should misrepresent his defensive play.

    Trapp's main contribution is organizing the defense. He does it pretty well. He has done that in eight games this year. We have not allowed more than two goals in any of those games, except for the only one of those games he was subbed out. We had only allowed two goals at the time he was subbed out, and were playing much better. The defensive organization left when Trapp did. I don't think its a coincidence. Those eight games include playing teams such as France, Brazil, England, Mexico. We didn't play one minnow either. The one game the defense struggled this year was against Colombia, one of two matches he didn't play in this year (the other against Bolivia).

    In all of these eight games, Trapp has been personally responsible for one goal. That one goal also shouldn't have happened, considering it was a bad PK call. Trapp never fouled the player, so he hasn't actually made any plays in all those games that have led to goals against.

    His help defense is not poor. I think this is a really unfair characterization. His help defense was poor for about 25 minute against England. Very fair criticism to say that, and it was noticeable. His play improved the rest of the game, and it has not been poor for the NT in other games. Should all players be judged on their worst 25 minute spell of one NT game? Thats what you are doing here.
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Did you miss his selfish episode in the last round of WCQ? He's the last player I'd want to be captain. Me, me, me. That attitude doesn't work, unless you are CR7.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Trapp isn't a rangy, ball-winning, destroyer; the game desperately needed one. As a mid, he is a weak-side, positional defender. He does well in 3-cm setups, in which the other two cm's are legit two-way players. This game presented a good opportunity to gauge whether he could play in a 2-man set-up at a good level. He can't. But that's ok as he still has his uses.
     
  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This is exactly where I think you and others miss Trapp's contribution. The stats show that our defense is very organized with Trapp in there. Too many look for plays that can fit into a highlight video. Do the numbers lie? How could we be playing so much better defensively than offensively if the #6 is a sieve? Does that mean the attackers are even worse?
     
  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That starting lineup includes two players that I think will be out of the sport within five years. I highly doubt they'd come within five goals of the NT. None of them are close to as good as Trapp. Thats basically a "C" U-20 team. They have a combined 41 first team football matches. The "A" U-20 team would lose by a couple of goals to the senior NT, as bad as the senior NT is.
     
  11. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Trapp is getting stick because he basically plays 90 every game under Sarachan even when he's not playing well.
     
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  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It makes the shot harder for Pulisic to shoot a half tick earlier. I think its too much over-analyzation with this sequence to criticize that he didn't score.
     
  13. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    That's certainly one aspect. The other is the overzealous support.
     
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You're wrong: Weah is actually in the _fourth_ division.

    Otherwise, spot on.
     
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  15. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Trapp is not international level, but neither is half of the guys people here are clamoring for. Julian Green has one goal in nearly 850 minutes playing as CAM/SS in the German second division, but if you dare to say he's not good enough some idiot jumps on you and says you think that way because he displaced Donovan in Brazil (which is crap, it was Brad Davis who did).
     
  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Weah, Yedin, and Villafana were worse than Trapp, but don't have the cult following.
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Villafaña was our best defender against England, which is not much to say actually. Wait a few more days until people start forgetting to criticize him.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    We haven't done it as far as I've seen. Honduras at home in March 2017 was the last time we had an effective, consistent press. We didn't use one before that for any stretch.
     
  19. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Can you explain this cult following?

    There are a couple of posters who believe he contributes in his role, and until a better option emerges in his position, he deserves to play his part.

    99% of the forum despises him because he messes with the world-domination CM of Adams and McKennie.
     
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  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I'd say Miazga was the best defender in the match.

    Trapp is international quality, but is also--like Beckerman--a niche player. JK played Rasta in a two-man central midfield against Argentina in the Copa.
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Trapp had a good game (by comparison to others) against England, but that doesn't mean he's international quality. I can understand the frustration of those who want to see Adams in the role. But I don't know if he'd be an upgrade. Club form not always translate to NT form.

    I think he was terrible. Barely better than Brooks. Chelsea and Nantes seem to agree with me, both clubs are fighting _not_ to have him around.
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You can see Trapp organizing. He is good at staying in position. It is more when he tries to do something that is it is usually a neutral or failed play. Even his great slide tackle was actually an inch or two off of a red card (studs were up and foot off the ground).

    But too much really about Trapp. He is ok. I think he is at his ceiling. Criticizing Trapp is just a stand in for criticizing the USSF for not hiring a coach, criticizing Sarachan for not trying anything but starting Trapp.

    Trapp couldn't get near the field during WCQ'ing and 6 months later he seems to be anointed as the new CAPTAIN that everything is built around. He didn't break out between the T&T and Bosnia game, he is basically the same good MLS player he has been since Arena was hired. That is what people just don't like, in their gut.

    Oh, and we got killed by England. Lucky to get out of there giving up 3. Strange to crow about our defense.
     
  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Player's fortunes can rise and fall at a given club. Miazga's situation at Nantes means nothing in terms of his future European prospects. Bradley had to leave Gladbach. Altidore had to leave Villareall. Each recovered.

    Trapp has done well over the past year. This game simply highlighted his limitations.
     
  24. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trapp is getting criticized becasue we new he couldn't play against this sort of team and we wanted at least 60 minutes of mckennie puli, and adams.
     
  25. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team's defensive numbers with Trapp at DM are inflated due to Trapp's poor defensive presence requiring additional defensive 8's being nailed back to cover for him.

    Essentially, because Trapp is a ghost defensively, we need to sit back and support him. Then when we do that, the goals against looks better but our attack goes to shit.
     

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