Revs Off Season talk - the quest to rebuild begins!

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by firstshirt, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    "Despite another postseason miss, New England Revolution opting not to rebuild"

    https://theathletic.com/641179/2018...new-england-revolution-opting-not-to-rebuild/

    The only possible way to look at this optimistically is to wish/assume that Revs will add 3 or 4 true difference makers/MLS Best 33 caliber players to the "core" with which they are enamored..

    Otherwise, well, they're already cooked for next season.
     
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  2. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's especially frustrating to look beyond Foxboro and see the FO chose Friedel over Gio Savarese who has Portland in the WCF. Even if Savarese fails to win the Cup in his first year at the helm, he's had a strong fseason and has the Timbers (susprisingly for many) competing for the Cup, which is exactly what we need(ed).

    To me Fridel is wrong in his assessment of the revs. It's not a question of mentality; it's a question of accountability at all levels.
     
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  3. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    He is actually a writer, correct?

    Some of the comments to the tweets are also brutally honest and painful to read
     
  4. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    So Friedel has either drank the Kraft Kool-aid or was TOLD to drink the Kool-aid.

    Or, Friedel is suddenly realizing he realities of coaching in MLS, in general - a slow growth curve for someone given his first job here.

    Either way, his job is on the line with how he sees talent, brings talent in, and how he gets them playing together to create wins - not lead the league in fouls and then make excuses.
     
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  5. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm guessing the latter. There wasn't much ambivalence in his assessment immediately at/near the end of the season, so either he had an epiphany, or.... . If this is the case I'm really torn, as I hate the direction he's looking to go, but there's not a chance in Hell he succeeds with his wings clipped. This could easily be a worst case scenario -- he doesn't get the players he wants, the Revs continue to muddle along, and it's two or three years til he's sacked.[/QUOTE]
     
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  6. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    [The link I posted earlier was the offseason MLS calendar - despite the link title looking like news about Cincy]

    Given that the Revs have made their "option" intent relatively clear already...


    ...it looks like next "big" offseason event, in which the Revs may or may not choose to participate, is

    But if we are to believe the Revs' annual representation(s) that they legitimately believe they will improve their team and actually become competitive, then the real date to keep an eye on is the Feb transfer window, during which MLS teams can sign on new stars - i.e., the difference makers, the game changers, the "MLS Best 33" caliber players.

    That's the window that will be telling - i.e., is Brad all hot air; or, will something meaningful and dramatic take place this coming year - which would be a significant departure from what has taken place in many recent offseasons.
    • From recent comments in the press, we know the Revs do not plan to turn over most of the roster...
    • ...but if they REALLY signed 3 difference makers, and did nothing else - well, then, that's dramatic enough to reshape my expectations for how 2019 will play out.)

    [My editorial/predictive comment re: likelihood has been intentionally withheld. I hope it is wrong.]



     
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  7. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No no ... what he saw in that one win against Montreal convinced him that he's already got all he needs.

    (Joking aside, very much the latter IMHO).
     
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  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is exactly what will happen.
     
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  9. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
     
  10. asctester

    asctester Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Apr 2, 2018
    Witch City, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never been accused of being an overly optimistic guy, but the pessimism and negativity on this board is pretty heavy.

    What do you honestly want to see the team do? Do you want them to replace every single player on the roster other than Penilla and Caicedo? Is there precedent for this? Did it work well?

    I recall DC United doing a big overhaul several years ago, but I don't think it went that great.

    Three seasons on the wrong side of the playoffs. Clearly changes are needed. Realistically I think getting 2 or 3 players who are an upgrade over the current roster could make a good difference. I share the skepticism about their ability to get it done. Turning over the whole roster seems unrealistic and counterproductive.
     
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  11. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I guess a start would be bringing in 3-4 new players at the TOP of the roster, guys who are not only expected to start, but to be among the better players at their position league-wide. Not everyone will be at the Penilla/Caicedo level, but that's what we need to strive for.

    From there, the guys who had been starters get bumped to depth/bench/sub roles. Those guys will always get minutes and occasional starts because of injuries, suspensions and tactical sub patterns. Those guys will displace the current reserves who are better suited for USL clubs or as practice players.

    The problem (and the source of "negativity") stems from what most of us believe will be the likely outcome: We'll get a few new players who are depth at best, and no real difference makers. The guys at the bottom of the roster will either be cut or stick around another year to rot on the bench.

    I hope I am wrong, but until I see otherwise, it will be hard to be too enthusiastic for now. If they have a few new, good players signed by the time camp opens, I will change my tune, but if they are going to do this, things have to start happening soon. Signing some guy in April won't cut it.
     
  12. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    LOL - agreed. This is what I find so interesting.

    If we were to watch all of the halftime and post game talks - Friedel was saying he didn't have guys with the right mental toughness, the right mentality, too many mistakes, we practiced dead ball defending for hours and we still give up goals, guys are playing for their jobs,

    And then he made the comment referenced in the article that there would be quite a few changes.....but somehow - when he said that, it was "misinterpreted"???

    And now, he says the guys he has is fine and he is excited about the core he has? Based on the Montreal game??

    Words can only do so much. Friedel trended downward all season, and what was especially scary was it was such a drastic decline. The honeymoon period gets over fast in pro sports.

    Friedel on the hook to then bring in some studs to this core group. If he just brings in next years version of Somi, Machado, and Hauche....and doesn't get results, well, Friedel won't last long in any league.
     
  13. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just one guy like that could make a huge difference.
     
  14. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d call it “pessimism based on realism.” It is no longer fair to call it negativity. This team fields a weaker roster almost every season.

    The talent is so marginal that nearly all of it needs to be replaced. I don’t know that one off season is going to suffice. However, in his first year hear, BF has proven he is doing as many steps backwards as forward, much like the Heaps era. The problem, and I feel strongly that it is realistic to expect, is how will this team get onto a trajectory where it increases the overall talent year on year until it catches up with many of the teams in this league?

    2-3 MLS best 11 or best 22 plus 2-3 more strong additions this winter. A full roster for the season start. Impactful additions every window for several years running. The net of talent remaining every window is superior to what existed before the window.

    I noticed on Transfermarkt they list the value of arrivals and departures by season for each MLS team. I don’t think the REVs have many seasons where the net was positive. The obvious rose colored argument here is that they don’t know what they are doing. But it seems a fairly independent assessment that may (I only glanced) show a trend.
     
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  15. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Wayne Rooney elevated the level of a bad DC United squad this past season. Prior seasons saw Lodeiro elevate a mediocre Sounders squad and Jermaine Jones elevate a middling Revs squad.

    Penilla is a very good player, but he's not at the Rooney/Lodeiro/Jones level - he's more of a Lucho Acosta type who needs a Rooney to play with to be truly successful. So if we get a stud DP center forward, we'll really be in business. Similarly, if we get a stud DP defensive midfielder, then whatever combination of other midfielders we play will be much more effective.

    I don't agree that our talent level is so marginal that we need to replace everyone. We just need, as several others have said, to use our three vacant DP slots to bring players in at the top of our roster. If we do that, IMO we can compete with RBNY, Atlanta and NYCFC next season.
     
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  16. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    What we want/need: 2 new guys at least as impactful as Penilla was last season, and a full 30 player roster

    What we'll get: 6 guys as impactful as Machado/Hauche, 2 MLS superdraft roster fillers, and 3 empty roster spots. And a new training facility
     
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  17. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Christmas is rich in presents for us.....
     
  18. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I just wonder what your basis for this pessimism is. Friedel has shown that he can bring in impactful players. He's obviously not batting 1.000 with Hauche, Machado and Somi. Zahibo's a wash. But Penilla and Caicedo are valuable players, Mancienne looks promising, and Bye was a solid draft pick. I expect that Friedel will bring in another seven or eight players (not including the draft), and that two or three of them will have a Penilla/Caicedo -level impact. And that's if we don't use any DP slots.
     
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  19. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 2019 MAC Hermann Trophy watch list
    (Name - class year, position, school (hometown))

    Joris Ahlinvi - Junior, M, Florida International (Saint-Aubin des Bois, France)
    Mertcan Akar - Junior, GK, Old Dominion (Cologne, Germany)
    Nathan Aune - Senior, D, Seattle (Arlington, Washington)
    Jakov Basic - Senior, M, Massachusetts-Lowell (Zagreb, Croatia)
    Tucker Bone - Senior, M, Air Force (Granite Bay, California)
    Niklas Brodacki- Junior, F, Central Arkansas (Norrkoping, Sweden)
    Antonio Bustamante - Senior, M, William and Mary (Springfield, Virginia)
    Drake Callender- Junior, GK, California (Fair Oaks, California)
    Kyle Clinton - Junior, D, Georgia State (Havant, England)
    Alex Cosmia - Senior, D, North Carolina (Vancouver, B.C.)
    Mark Forrest - Senior, F, Lehigh (Douglassville, Pennsylvania)
    Allen Gavilanes - Sophomore, F, Marist (North Plainfield, New Jersey).
    Brandon Guhl - Junior, F, Butler (Houston, Texas)
    Andrew Gutman - Senior, D, Indiana (Hillsdale, Illinois)
    Jimmy Hague - Senior, GK, Michigan State (Walled Lake, Michigan)
    Jack Hallahan- Junior, F, Michigan (Redditch, England)
    Erik Holt - Junior, D, UCLA (San Diego, California)
    Jean-Christoph Koffi- Senior, M, Virginia (Potomac, Maryland)
    Daniel Krutzen - Senior, M, Albany (Lanaken, Belgium)
    Janos Loebe - Senior, F, Fordham (Kierspe, Germany)
    Brendan McDonough - Senior, D, Georgetown (Matthews, North Carolina)
    Zac McGraw - Junior, D, Army-West Point (Torrance, California)
    Garrett McLaughlin - Junior, F, SMU (Edmond, Oklahoma)
    Benji Michel - Junior, F, Portland (Orlando, Florida)
    Rey Ortiz - Junior, M, Portland (Acapulco, Mexico)
    Elliott Otmani - Senior, F, Rider (La Ciotat, France)
    Santiago Patino - Senior, F, Florida International (Orlando, Florida)
    Brian Saramago - Junior, F, Loyola Maryland (New Hyde Park, New York)
    Andrew Shinyashiki - Senior, F, Denver (Sao Paulo, Brazil)
    Davis Smith - Sophomore, F, Massachusetts (Amherst, Massachusetts)
    Jonny Sutherland - Senior, GK, Clemson (Chester, England)
    Faouzi Taieb - Junior, D, UC Santa Barbara (Marseille, France)
     
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  20. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me, the key is Mancienne. Will he develop into a leader that can organize the back 4? Or will he be another Somi: start the first half of 2019 then fall out of favor because his play doesn't justify his $1.3M salary, and disappear?

    I think it could go either way.

    Other than that, my pessimism is based on history. I agree that Penilla and Caidcedo are valuable players, but this team is in need of a difference maker. As I've stated before, the only difference maker they have been able to land in the last ten years was Jermaine Jones. And Chicago did all the work.

    If Friedel can show me he is capable (with or without Burns' help) to land ONE difference maker, I will gladly issue a mea culpa for my pessimism.
     
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  21. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    My pessimism is grounded in 2 things:
    1) the track record of our fearless GM in roster building
    2) the walkback on the roster overhaul comments, prompted by the krafts tightening the already fraying purse strings
     
  22. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My Kingdom for a Jermaine Jones... for example.
     
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  23. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Apparently a fairly prominent Uruguayan agent was at Gillette recently (he posted a picture of it on twitter). Probably not there to meet with Belichick - just saying ... [reported by Bent Musket]
     
  24. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    This came up on twitter yesterday. Here is a list of players represented by the agency (GBG). A few people pointed to Espino (LB in Argentine 1st division) as the likely target, but there was nothing to corroborate it
     
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  25. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Another one Yes we need, hopeful he can actually defend, unlike the others. Meanwhile we cant score and have no good AM. I am reading about other teams that are signing people NOW. WTF is Burns doing? The usual???NADA???.
     

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