I never said MLS is flawless. Don't put words in my mouth. I said, and I continue to be, skeptical. I think Saputo's exaggerating the loss. We'll see what happens. It could turn out that the CPL sells their "TV" rights to DAZN and then DAZN doesn't sublicense it back out and the comparison is thrown out of whack. It's successful in some parts of the country more than others. If you compare attendances, Montreal, TFC and Vancouver all outdraw their CFL counterparts. We don't know what the local TV numbers are in each market because TSN doesn't release those, but I'd be surprised if they weren't comparable. Where interest in the CFL is high are in the Prairies. If we're assuming that the market demographics that support the CFL are the same as the ones that will support the CPL, then Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Halifax should lead the way in attendance. Places like York should be expected to struggle and unfortunately, that looks to be the case. I understand that but that's Quebec City. It's not Montreal. What works for Quebec City doesn't necessarily work for Montreal. I don't see how you draw more fans by leaving a league where you can sign those stars to join a league where that's not financially possible. Attendance did increase with Drogba. The club sold out nearly ever game in 2015 with him and achieved a 84% season ticket renewal rate. At the end of the day, the fans are concerned with winning and losing. I seriously doubt that Montreal fans would be less forgiving of the team if they were losing in CPL as opposed to losing in MLS.
It’s not about me liking or disliking your answer. I couldn’t care less tbh. And what you say is true but that has nothing to do with the fact that MLS owns right to the names, crest, and most of the players on the squad. If CSA declines to sanction Canadian MLS teams I reckon canadian owners will have to operate their team in US, or sell their share in MLS.
Fair enough and that's your opinion. You understand if I go with Saputo's statements and the journalists who were shown presentations and actual numbers by Saputo's himself. The Saputos might be one of Canada's richest family but I doubt Lino Saputo let's Hoey play with the whole family's money. Joey's bleeding money and he has to take care of Bologna in Serie. I think he ought to be taken seriously. You're right, we'll have to see... however CPL has a higher ceiling in Canada than MLS. I think the Alouettes do well in Quebec as they are broadcast by RDS. Montreal is a case that the team has to win to have high followings. Same for BC. As for the Argonauts, they need to love out of Toronto. Not sure what the TV figure is as they count in the GTA TV market which include Hamilton who are successful. The Argos problem is attendance and they need to try the suburbs... Toronto simply doesn't work. It actually does. When the Nordiques were around, even when they weren't so good, they pride themselves at playing LOTS of Quebecers like Atletic Bilbao does in Spain. Guess what, they were the most popular club in Quebec. They would get even cheers in Montreal as the Habs. When they were moved, journalists have wrote endlessly on how the Habs became complacent by not putting emphasis on winning as much and not playing as many Quebecers as much. This posted off fans and media alike. When the Habs wins, people go, when they have terrible seasons, people started to desert them. The Quebec market is very distinctive. That's why I'm saying a Quebec City CPL team playing lots of Quebecers would put added pressure to Montreal Impact. The province would follow them more than Montreal who can't even get momentum outside of the island to the owners own admission. Like I keep maintaining, Quebec City vs Montreal derby would sell out the 61 000 seats Olympic Stadium everytime. The hate between those 2 cities transcends sports. Even those who aren't that much into soccer would circle those dates into those calendars. TV wise? 8M live in that province, most of them would be watching, plus the extra sales of merchandise and sponsorship. I was born there and raised through that rivalry drama. Even in hockey, the biggest rivalry was always Quebec City over Boston and Toronto for the Canadiens. Someone like Saputo is aware of that. And we like to make fun of the "Newfies" in Newfoundland. What about the francophones in Moncton? More rivalries in CPL to attract more fans than MLS can attract. MLS problems is that they don't understand the Quebec market, nor they ever cared to try, that's why I have no doubt about Quebec... Slapping the word "Boston" on New England (don't know how close it actually is) would have been a start. After Quebec City, we freaking hate Boston and more people would have cared. Still ended up being the year where Saputonhad his heaviest loss, $15M. Yes, winning sell. They would be more likely to be the PSG of CPL than the Swansea of EPL. Which one sells more? The one being a dynasty clubs by winning Championships over Championship and facing the like of NYC, LA and Miami un Champions league or the one not making the playoffs in MLS and having mediocre seasons? You tell me
Goes both ways. The Canadian teams also owns share in MLS. Sure they would have to sell their share of MLS but MLS would have to sell their takes in those teams back to the owners. With the CSA and CONCACAF being the extra parties to that deal, you can't have the same logic for them as you have for US based cities. Remember that the deal was done at a time when MLS wasn't as big as it is today. For the CSA to not have an out clause protecting its interests and control over those clubs is crazy. Got to treat the 3 Canadians clubs as exceptions as at the end of the day, the CSA have last say on this.
With all the talk of community engagement, I think that argument best fits why BC is struggling. It's not that they suck on the field, it's that off the field, they've stopped being as active as they were under Bob Ackles. I think Hamiltonians would take exception to being labelled "GTA." Most people, myself included, would only count Toronto, York, Durham and Peel Region as "GTA." I'd be interested in seeing what the Venn diagram looks like for people who were fans of both the Nordiques and the Habs. I suspect that diagram would be quite small and the reason for that is because it's a Quebec vs Montreal thing. You're either a fan of one or the other, but not both. That is why I agree with you about the phenomenon but I come to a different conclusion. It's sort of like political tribalism in a way - like if a politician runs on being a "family man/woman." To their base, it means a lot. To people who aren't their target audience, it doesn't mean much. To the French press, it's a problem if the Habs' head coach can't speak French. To the English press, it means nothing. I can see how in Quebec it matters how many Quebecers are on the team. In Montreal, which is more multi-ethnic, I'm not convinced. He can't have it both ways. Either you spend more to bring in the talent which hopefully helps you win and you sell more tickets as a result... ...or you spend less and success becomes less certain which means you may not sell as many tickets. I'm not sure PSG is such a good comparison because their budget is one of the highest in the world. If they were offered membership in the EPL, they'd take it and they'd still be one of the best teams in the league. Swansea on the other hand, although not an EPL club anymore, is a Welsh team playing in a cross border league. What we'd have to do in this case is ask what would happen if they pulled out of the English Football League and joined the Welsh Premier League? Well, according to transfermarkt, the most valuable club in Wales is the New Saints at £1.17 m. Swansea are currently worth £58.82, so right away, they'd be depreciating their asset by 98% if they were to be on par with the New Saints. The most valuable player in the WPL is Greg Draper at £360k. He would be the 22nd most valuable player at Swansea. Caernarfon Town have the league's highest attendance at 897. Swansea average 19,813, about 22 times more. I could go on but another question is whether Saputo would even spend to the cap in order to win in CPL? For example, Rod Fanni is not a star in MLS but in the CPL, he'd probably be the best defender in the league. He makes $710,000. What if Saputo decides that if the league isn't going to have DP's or some sort of exception for that kind of player, then he's not even going to spend at the cap at all? What if, in order to entice him to join CPL, the league gives him a no-compete clause for 10 years which means no other club in the Montreal area will be accepted. Then he joins, he only spends to ~75% of the cap and instead of being the PSG of CPL, they're Bordeaux?
They count in the GTA TV market. Possibly, but the Nordiques were more popular than the mighty century old Habs. Something being more relatable had a lot to do with it. To your point on this, I will concede that it doesnt as much when they are winning. But losing and not playing Quebecers makes people and media blood boil. Ironically, the same frustration can be found in English media. Winning is good but losing and not playing Canadians will just draw more criticism just like in Quebec. We all knew it would go downhill once he purchased Bologna in Serie A. No way Montreal would ever go ahead of Bologna in Serie A...that team is flirting with relegation... They wouldn't, the fans wouldn't have it and they like winning trophies. They aren't spending for Ligue 1, they are for winning the Champions League. Besides, UEFA would never allow it Can't compare Wales-England with Canada-US. Fundamentally different culture and Canada isn't a US territory. CPL has opened the door to DP. Remains to be seen on how they plan to handle the financial part of building rosters. That's what CPL means by "we have to grow to the point where it makes sense for them to join" A low hard cap wouldn't make sense to the 3 clubs. However, post 2026 World Cup when CPL is big enough to launch D2, it starts to make more sense under these circumstances: FIFA plans to expand FIFA Club World Cup. Performance in CCL would determine who would go to that tournament. CSA plans on adding CCL berths which will all go to CPL. Under the status quo, the 3 clubs only gets 1 spot among them 3 and if a CPL clubs wins the Canadian Championship, no clubs goes to CCL. Joining CPL means that the 3 of them could compete for up to 2 or 3 CCL berths. That kind of exposure is taken very seriously here. CPL increasing progressively the Cap, Canadian pool expanding and becoming solid while allowing DPs in CPL would put the 3 at a huge advantage. As of now, only Hamilton (billionaire tech), Calgary (richer than the Habs) and York (biggest home builder in Canada) could keep up knowing who their financial backers are. They would still have the advantage and could build soccer dynasties of their own like Barca, Real and AM in Spain while being able to be competitive in CCL at a lower cost than MLS. But CPL has to grow to that point where it can provide an environment allowing current 3 MLS teams to operate as they usually do and still thrive. The league isn't there and won't be there in the short term just like MLS had to grow to get to that point. Took MLS 10 years to get to DP, can CPL do it in 7 years to 2026? They can if they hit all their benchmarks. If the league does it's job on the business model side and marketing, and us fans watch it, attend the game and buy the merchandise at CFL level, absolutely. The CFL 2018 salary cap is $5.2M and last year minimum salary was $53K. (Higher average attendance and TV viewership than MLS) That's a direct correlation to the impressive support by sponsors, TV, merchandise sales and attendance. CPL achieving that and adding DP on top of it, I have no doubt in my mind that the league could start to look attractive to the 3 MLS clubs. For it's inaugural season might be modest but they are to be applauded for their caution and conservative approach. It's not a race but a marathon for the long term viability.
No wonder CPL has added Mississauga as a potential city. Potential ownership has contacted the league. Having the politicians 100% behind the league and advancing the project to build a stadium had a lot to do with it Excellent work! We’ve come a long way, but we still have more to do. I will continue to work with you to realize our shared goal: a @CPLsoccer team in #Mississauga to compliment our #CASA @saugametrostars. #CPLsoccer https://t.co/z0kR9aLJxK— Bonnie Crombie 🇨🇦 (@BonnieCrombie) October 15, 2018
Saputo goes fully transparent and corroborate what the media was reporting https://www.impactmontreal.com/en/post/2018/10/15/amounts-invested-stade-saputo-and-centre-nutrilait Not sure Garber and MLS as a whole appreciates the excess of honesty The Forbes club value, a mirage Forbes publishes an annual appraisal of the value of many sports clubs all over the world, including all MLS clubs. These numbers, however, are not based on any official data provided by the clubs or MLS itself. Almost sounds like he wants Garber to end his financial suffering. The original French text says that these numbers aren't to be taken literally.
Stripping away all the reasons people give to support their opinions, nothing anyone has written in this thread more clearly emphasizes the difference between those with boundless optimism for the CPL and those with more measured expectations for the league. If that is what you (and those who share your view) truly believe, then I can completely understand how you (and those who share your view) can write about CPL teams in every city over 100 000 and about CPL2 and about CPL teams beating MLS teams for berths in the CCL. Personally - and I say this without any insult intended - I think you are dreaming. I wish the CPL nothing but success. I intend to support the league as a Canadian soccer fan. I think, however, that the league will have to focus more on surviving to the age of five or ten than on figuring out what to do with the 61 001 th fan who can't get a ticket to the Montreal-Quebec City rivalry game. Clip and save, I guess.
Some would argue that MLS was this big because there were dreamers because when that thing started, no one would ever think of a stadium the size of Atlanta's selling out or the league as a whole growing to this point. I was most likely you when the league started so I understand. The selling out of QC and MTL is possible, the league making it happen is a different discussion and that's on them to pull it off if it comes to that. Pro/rel isn't that crazy of an idea. It's being done already and a better fit for smaller cities. 2026 or beyond is a reasonable way to do it. Might not be 2026 but once the Premier League is filled and stable, than why not? It's crazy for CPL to beat MLS in Canadian Championship? Weaker teams upsetting giants happens all the time all around the world. Heck, USL Montreal did it to TFC in 2008 with a Canadian Heavy roster. Al's, the CSA might change the domestic quota for its tournament. We'll see how it turns out
Never mind the memberships: Brennan bullish on York 9’s future https://t.co/yaWsZmJKLM— Steven Sandor (@stevensandor) October 16, 2018
News of further player signings will be revealed in early November. Commissioner David Clanachan thinks over 20 #GotGame trialists will be invited by #CanPL clubs to training camps.— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) October 16, 2018 Coaches have provided their thoughts on roster building in the latest piece by @KurtLarsonCPL at @CPLsoccer ⬇️https://t.co/hbMo78Afsq— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) October 16, 2018 “There were four things our clubs considered while building their rosters: A league that’s Canadian, with an age profile younger than most North American leagues, featuring local talent, with up and coming internationals mixed in,” -James Easton, the Canadian Premier League’s VP of Football Operations. Further roster additions, including select standouts from the league’s more than 1,400 trialists, will be revealed by early November, though Commissioner David Clanachan has stated he expects over 20 trialists to be invited to Training Camps.
Clanachan also identified four locations for a possible 2020 expansion: Ottawa, Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Saskatchewan and Quebec (province).For more details, check out the full article at https://t.co/5T9pt5SLcM below ⬇️https://t.co/aeJ6k2MCaF— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) October 16, 2018
Waiting until 2020 for an eight team is actually good news at this point. It is far better to launch with a solid lead up than to launch an extra team prematurely just to get to eight. Of the four potential candidates, I'd most like to see Ottawa with, ideally, the Fury lured over.
I have to agree, let's start with 7 and not rush team #8. I'm not a fan of OSEG after what they pulled last month but they might see the light or they'll be left behind. My hope is Quebec City, Abraham's Plains would be insane but I'll take land near the Videotron Arena. Saskatoon, downtown stadium with Joe Belan Group Tri-Cities, Modular Stadium near downtown Waterloo and along the new LRT line Ottawa...OSEG selling to another group. OSEG's commitment to soccer has been questioned often in the past.
I hope both Quebec and Saskatoon get in for 2020. Quebec because I want to see more French media cover the league and Saskatoon to ease travel for the western teams.
According to this below, makes sense for CPL to actively go after Kitchener-Waterloo, Ottawa and Quebec. As for Saskatoon or Regina, they want a team in every province, hence talks about St.John's and Moncton being included sooner rather than later
We are pleased to announce the CPL-U Sports Draft, giving select, top rated, Canadian University soccer players from coast to coast an opportunity to earn a spot on a CPL team through the draft on Nov. 12.📝: https://t.co/YQHPYD6vxs | #CanPL pic.twitter.com/8DFX9FST6I— Canadian Premier League (@CPLsoccer) October 17, 2018 A player draft will take place on November 12 after the 2018 U SPORTS Men’s Soccer Championship in Vancouver. Players selected will be invited to participate in a pre-season camp by their respective team. #CanPL— The CanPL Hub (@thecanplhub) October 17, 2018 https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports...ue-to-partner-with-u-sports-on-sharing-talent The Canadian Premier League is joining forces with U Sports to help funnel young talent to the fledgling men’s pro soccer league. Student-athletes will be able to play with a CPL club, while preserving their eligibility, in the spring and summer before returning to U Sports competition. The student will be paid for his efforts after signing a CPL-U Sports developmental contract...
It's kind of odd seeing London and Kitchener lumped together as one market. They are fairly close together, but by that reasoning, Guelph should be part of the market as well. (Although the fact that they calculated the market at 1.8M suggests to me they probably did)
How does this differ from the NCAA? Breakdown of the CPL-U SPORTS Draft • For U SPORTS Student-Athletes who have not graduated and still have years of eligibility to return to their university and continue to participate in U SPORTS men’s soccer. If drafted, they will then be signed by a CPL team on a Standard Developmental Contract as provided by the CPL Administration. • Any drafted player that returns to university following the CPL season and continues to meet draft- eligible rules will go back into the CPL draft in subsequent year(s). • Student-athletes will be released to return to the U SPORTS team on August 15. Once the U SPORTS team has completed their competitive season playing commitments, the student-athlete may re-join the team until the CPL playing commitments are completed. • Developmental contracts expire on the day after the CPL Team is finished with CPL or CPL-related playing commitments.
The city of Montreal said no to Saputo on reducing his taxes. Saputo needs a partner for the team or he'll have a decision to make... that is if MLS doesn't make it for him Pas de congé de taxes pour l'Impact de Montréal, tranche la Ville https://t.co/6wiVBsNrXq— Vincent Pouliot (@VincentBP) October 19, 2018