Pre-match: International Friendly: USA vs Brazil; September 2018

Miazga is not slow. On the contrary, he is both pretty fast and and quick, (and certainly more so than Cameron of recent vintage). Prior to being sold to Chelsea, he was an integral part of the RBNY backline that won the SS because of his speed and quickness, next to one of the immobile second tier French (or French Canadian) center backs (Zubar, Perinelle, Ouimette). The following year, Marsch's high press system was vulnerable to fast wingers on the counter largely due to Miazga's absence. Miazga from a speed and quickness standpoint did well versus Giovinco, Villa, Oduro, and Accam in space and from a speed standpoint.

 

He's got good enough speed for his size but no. He isn't very laterally quick and Cameron is a much better athlete and the more mobile of the two.

 

Against Mexico? Maybe. Brazil? Not so much.

 

And many haven't succeeded. Many careers have stagnated. You can say injury or just no play time but things didn't work out like us fans had hoped. You are being way too thin skin on anything you feel is a slight towards going to Europe. He didn't say the kid shouldn't go to Europe, he said like many of our prospects let's hope. How in God's name do you find that a to be a slight of the going to Europe route. As a Red Bull fan, hearing that Adams is going to Europe, I think I hope it goes well and he can hack it. I hope his career doesn't stagnate there. I don't think I am saying Europe is a bad call, you however seem to scour posts for the slightest bit of prejudice or prejudice you perceive of MLS over Europe.

And further more, you are gonna sit there and deny that the YNT classes of 2013-17 were not a let down? Guys that were U-17 and U-20 those years were suppose to trickle into the MNT so we wouldnt have missed Russia (well maybe it was too soon for the 2017 class) but there were lack of options as players we hoped would come good didn't. Some of those players went to Europe and failed, some in the MLS and failed. The best prospects went to Europe and that was where they failed. I really think you should stop looking for slights that don't exist.

 

Miazga is fast, covers a lot of ground, and can go all the way to try the header when a set piece is given (did that with Vitesse, at least).

What he's not is agile. It's two different things. A speedy player can cover a lot of ground, but if he's not agile he cannot follow a dribbler. Of course forwards tend to be more agile than defenders, so the defenders compensate through positioning.

Cameron himself is not exactly agile, but he has (had?) very good positioning. That's something Miazga still lacks.

 

Miazga might not be slow, but if he's not, he's close to it. I wouldn't say his mobility is any better than slightly below average. You don't get extra points for being mobile for your size, just like players don't get extra points for being good in the air for their size. We need to be playing no less than one mobile CB at all times, otherwise we'll get victimized like we did against Costa Rica. If we play a 3 man backline, you can't have any more than one guy with mobility below average. It'll look like the Mexico game. You don't want a player like Miazga defending 1v1 players anywhere where they have an angle to go past him.

 

Most prospects fail. That is why they are called prospects and not understudies or something. Young players are just hard to project. Look at the MLB or NFL draft; it is a crap shoot and it comes up 7 more often than not.

A great 13 year old is often played with 16 year olds for the competition. To make him better. Top girls will play with boys. You can't get better if you don't push yourself. It is true in everything. Some of those kids playing up will not do well. But that doesn't mean the concept is wrong or that other players won't jump in skill with the increased competition. The best players, the best competition, is in Europe. That is the natural place to push yourself when you get to the point MLS or the DA can't push you any longer.

 

They're a couple of years old, but go back and watch some videos of him stonewalling David Villa on the dribble.

Overall mobility is a strength for this CB, not a weakness.

 

Hoo boy!

Our backline due to get torched. Dougie C, Coutinho, NeyNey.

Our boys will also get to see what a REAL DM looks like with Casemiro. Yedlin will have his hands full with A Sandro steaming up the left flank. OTH, IF he can get forward, Sandro is not the best on the defensive end.

Looking forward to this one. We will see what our kiddies have to offer.

 

Rep for the "tronco" reference!

 

Reading through this thread, I guess the Zardes hate will never die!

 

Nobody hates Zardes, dislike is a better word, but to be honest it is not his fault it is everybody that continues to call him in. And it is also a reflection of the players available to us, for Zardes to be continued to get calls just shows you how pathetic our pool is.

 

Dislikers gonna dislike!

 

Yep. The 1989-1992 youth cycle (aka the Adu generation) is the single worst youth cycle I have ever witnessed. The only serviceable YNT players are Altidore and Wood. Given that this age is where we should be getting our current crop of veteran leaders we are in a world of hurt. The upside is that the 93-96 is decent while 97-00 looks like the best ever.

 

Agreed. El Burro is just technically extremely limited. He is the prototypical American attacker. Fast, agile, a poacher from short distances, maybe able to stretch a defense at times to get in behind, but not great on the first touch, and not generally able to hold up or beat quality defenders on the dribble. Time and again we've seen balls carom off his feet as if he is the cue ball. I don't hate the guy, I just wish we could have moved beyond him by now.

 

If this forum were actively moderated, we could split off the CB discussion, but since it isn't ...

I hope everyone can understand (and agree) that every team (including ours) should have CBs with complementary qualities. Ideally, each CB would be the complete package, but such CBs are rare - and nonexistent in our pool.

I like to start with a model, say Fabio Cannavaro and Marco Materazzi, because they were a successful pair who fit my labels so well: Brains and Brawn. [Feel free to create your own labels.]

Obviously there are minimum thresholds for each, but note Cannavaro was (and presumably still is, in retirement) just 5'9" tall, and Materazzi was relatively quick and mobile (for a guy his size ).

I feel that too often our CB pairs have been Brawn and Brawn (or Brawn and Brawnier - though many times, surprisingly not brawny enough) and short on 'brains' - quickness, mobility, anticipation, great positional sense.

I am higher on Miazga than you are, but I agree that a Brooks-Miazga pairing is not ideal, as I would prefer not to start two CBs who can be spun like a top.

Can you (or someone else here) give me three or four CBs from our current pool that might fit each of my categories. Thanks in advance ...

 

That was never my argument. MY problem was that bsky took offense to Suy's harmless comment like Suy was slugging Europe. No one was looking down on Europe, but bsky has this chip on his shoulder about anyone saying anything note positive about moving to Europe, he attacks. All Suy said was "like many of our top prospects he went to Europe, hopefully his career doesn't stagnate." Where is the slight?

 

Speak for yourself.

 

This is why Besler not getting more time amazed me.

As I said
Brooks-Parker
Miazaga - Long
CCV - EPB

 

In the context of player development, some might consider the word 'stagnate' as a pejorative term.

 

I actually do like Miazga's game, I just don't see him as particularly mobile or good on the ball. That doesn't make him a bad CB, but one that you have to work around, and use with a mobile CB who can move the ball up the field well.

I also think that the best possible CB pairing is one with two guys who are mobile and are good on the ball. You also need aerial ability, positional defending, reasonably smart decisions. Usually a lot of players have a couple of these attributes, but not all, so you are right that a lot of CB pairings have contrasting styles of play, but if you could get two players who are good in all the important areas, you'll take it.

I tend to think that we are developing some of those players, EPB, Richards, Akanyirige, Keita. If we don't have enough of those players, and only have one, I'd then pair that all-around guy with a more mobile player who can pass the ball because I'd lean more towards possession, attacking play than defensive recoveries, aerial play. Thats why I'm a big fan of Justen Glad, even though you'll never hear him mentioned much around here. Its why I like Mark McKenzie's game more than Trusty's among the two Union CB's. Julian Araujo will be the best example of this, if he grows 2-3 inches.

There's a place for bigger CB's. A guy like Brooks probably has an easier time fitting in the lineup because he's very good on the ball, despite not being that mobile. Players like Miazga, Carter-Vickers, Trusty have smaller roles, but there should always be a role in the team for a CB who can help when you need to defend deep in your own half.

 

Brooks, Miazga, Long, Zimmerman, etc paired with Glad, Parker, CCV, EPB, etc

 

I was responding to a poster who is pro-MLS, has expressed concerns about dual nationals, is convinced there is a huge bias against american players, constantly makes broad sweeping generalizations (ie players shouldnt go to Portugal or Italy because Parks is still with the second team and Perez came back to MLS) and exaggerates anything that doesnt go as perfectly hoped in Europe.

I dont think im being thin skinned but calling out an exaggeration. Plenty of our players havent made there and there have been cases where they didnt get the chance another guy got. It is cut throat professional sports where success rates are very low and apparently doesnt fall in line with some over zealous US fans who seem to over rate our players.

I'd argue that our success rate is in line with our talent or even better. It also seems to be improving. I still dont get this bit about our players stagnating. Who are these players? If they were stagnating, they wouldnt come back to MLS and be more dominant than those that never left. Stagnating is what you see MLS guys do after a couple of years of improving and they settle into their role. Just about every one of our top players ever were exposed to the game in Europe and the list is small and not impressive of guys who have spent their whole career in MLS. I be much more worried if he wasnt heading abroad.

I'm not sure why you would worry about Adams. He is much more likely to improve with Leipzig than staying at NYRB. He will be forced to play at a higher tempo with less space, better competition, higher expectations, while playing in a more sophisticated system.

This whole thing is a complete misdiagnosis of the problem. Trying to pin on "europe" is like trying to blame the NBA or MLB for college or AA players dont make it.

 

I think CCV is gonna be the best CB we've ever had.