Dynamo Fans: Is It Good Money After Bad From Here On Out?

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by Westside Cosmo, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Folks, wanted to pose this question since it seems that the club is at an inflection point, where continuing to buy tickets and season tickets further empowers the club to actually pull back on its spending on the team and retards the process of improving the customer experience.

    I mentioned this before, there is a lot of discussion in the newspaper industry and a few other declining industries that the strategy to increase profits and returns is to further cut costs while simultaneously raising prices knowing that there is core customer base that will purchase regardless of the level of service.

    At what point does the fanbase as a collective realize that continuing to purchase the product not only rewards mediocrity but further incentivizes it? It's like continuing to buy tickets affirms the FO and ownership is doing things correctly.

    Understand that IMO, the Dynamo FO & ownership has squandered one of the best possible situations in which to enhance a team - a growing local market (some northern cities would kill for Houston's population and economic growth), solid demographics, a premium "urban" location Downtown (although I disagree a bit), and an initial history of success (2006-2009). But instead of being a top half MLS club we are now a bottom-third club surrounded by clubs with zero ambition owners in bad markets.

    Comparatively speaking, the Astros, Rockets, and even Texans owners (sort of, mostly because the NFL model equalizes teams' spending levels) have ambition while the Dynamo operate with all of the passion and drive of an old Burger King franchise.

    Why should we care when the owners don't seem to?
     
  2. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd argue up and down that there isn't a bad market in MLS. Yet. Just incompetent or poor af ownership groups.
     
    naranjableeder and AcetheTigah repped this.
  3. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    There is also a another part of the ownership we know little about - the silent investor group that may have up to 40% or more interest. What role do they have in the deciision making process. Is there goal only a low risk financial return? or would they even be on board with a more aggressive brand growth by increasing investment in players scouting academy system marketing the team etc etc
    I think they may be pretty averse to risking more investment money in the franchise. We are probably stuck with this until they get their payout when cash infusions from new franchises end.
     
  4. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our talent rich youth scene, booming economy, very soccer savvy fan base and certainly a terrific stadium with the aforementioned core MLS loving fan base, our market has everything that an ownership group would ever want or need! To grow a successful business model that places Houston in the top end of successful clubs in our league. Since our players are just quality enough and our home ground just defended enough, there are these last seasons where the players earn their paycheck and us fans n supporters return the effort. Yet our FO does not match either of these fronts. Period.
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I know the Astros are winning championships and maybe even suggesting certain things were planned during certain periods but for about 2-3 years there they were fielding league minimum salary teams that were horrifically bad. Their attendance imploded and there might have been more Rangers fans at a game than locals. Root failed, the team got sold, and they suddenly decided to start spending money again. We know the story ended well but I've always wondered if the timing of the money tap going back on was planned or started earlier than expected because the fans' indifference went to the bottom line enough.

    I do wonder if their plan is stadium and LBO debt service for a while and when a while changes, if ever. I think reporters should be asking pointed questions and depending what they say fans might want to vote with their feet or encourage a sale.

    I don't get going whole seasons without sponsors, ie, sponsor dollars. I wonder what is up with that. I mean coming off last year, discounting for Portland as a sports matter or not, we in fact made the semis. When you are talking to sponsors you are a top 4 team. The rest is for the soccer nerds to consider. As with Root, the Dynamo are instead headed back towards trying to leverage relationships from the bottom of the barrel. If the Astros couldn't get cable to up their rates for Root for a team that couldn't win to save its life then how are the Dynamo going to maximize a sponsor if we dwindle back down to a bottom handful team again.

    To me this is such a cheap payroll league it's disappointing to watch the team be run as some isolated carry your own weight business. Not every sports team is run on a cash and carry basis. What about "I want to win."

    I do wonder if they realize re the USOC gambit that the prize money is limited and that with the reworking of CCL you come in at a playoff stage and are guaranteed just one home game against a good team (since it will either be a big country team or a winning qualifier), not two home games (4 total) and if you drew well they were scrubby.
     
  6. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soccergodlss, El Naranja and *rey* repped this.
  7. nbrooks503

    nbrooks503 Previously Held @Dynamo Hostage From 2008-2019

    Jun 1, 2008
    Disgruntled Former STH - Fairweather Bandwaggoner
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So did I. The way the email was phrased I think they sent it out to all old STHs or mailing list of folks who bought tickets before.

    Sort of sad but it’s also a Thursday night game during school year so sales are probably lousy
     
  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #9 juvechelsea, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    I got one and I've never had ST. So it's an exclusive insider deal to All Of Us.

    I wasn't paying too close attention other than my eyes popped at the price, since I don't like to watch games in the heat of this time of year. But I thought at least one offer was for RSL. But I wasn't looking close.

    I have often felt like the ticket prices, or the lack of discount deals like this, were over-MBA-ing it. I believe in cross-over point mathematical economics. I don't believe in a lot of the philosophical malarkey in its neighborhood, eg, "we have to keep the prices up and not give discounts so it's valued." My theory that in mathematical terms is leaving money on the table, for some sort of intangible idea price maintenance is necessary to keep the trip compelling. It's the sort of thing poor MBAs are led astray with. Stick to the numbers. They should be seeing by now, like the Astros, that cutting corners on competitiveness while even increasing ticket prices is a road to lower attendance and revenue. They may think for a period of time they can make do and sometimes make playoffs and sometimes not, but that's only been tested in recent franchise history and the attendance has steadily fallen off. At some point the penny pinching as with the old Astros has to hit the bottom line.

    I say this because $9 sounded like a little panic. I think it's a good deal and they should have been doing more like this all along. Most of their deals instead trended towards group deals where a lot of money would be spent anyway. But given their nature when they suddenly break down and offer single ticket deals this marked down, it's like, oh, they're panicking. It's all relative.
     
  10. naranjableeder

    naranjableeder Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 30, 2006
    In the Terraces
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Season tickets: not no, but hell no!

    Select games: That's what I do.

    The way they are running this team... I would be crazier than them for buying season tickets. I am and have been blood in / Blood out (have the dynamo logo tattoo'd for proof) support of this team. I support the players on the field, but the FO has taken that ability from me and I can not support how they are running this team into the dirt. I feel that they think the fan based is stupid... naive or a combo of everything.

    There are people out there that buy season tickets because it's a get away on the weekend. I'm ok with those people and a few I sit with during the games. Just can't spend money that shows I support everything they decide like that.
     
    Heft, CeltTexan and *rey* repped this.
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    If you go to IHOP and the group only ask you to chip in $10 for food and $2 for tip, it's not obvious you're cheap. OK, you go to Cheesecake and someone racks up a $50 bill. Or suggests we go to Brennans and nothing on the menu is less than $30. You're going to find out if they're a tight first then. No, I am not going. I am going but I will have an appetizer. Or you have the cash and are willing, at least for a night. That's what I think the transition from hard cap to DP did. The league has gone from IHOP to white tablecloth and we're not keeping up.

    I routinely watch the games on TV. I go either when invited by soccer friends or when I feel like going. So I feel like I am speaking for someone more irregular or casual. I respond to the vibe around the team. The vibe was there last year. That flurry felt like they were trying. I went to a couple. The vibe was not there this spring. The winter felt rote and like the wilderness years. The acquisitions this year were uninspired or mis-scouted. I am not going to watch a winner per se, because you don't know that til after it's done. But to me it's a pro sport and what prompts me is signing people like you care.***

    ***this is somewhat cardboard cutout, I saw a few games in 2010 and not some in some good years. but in terms of feeling like going, it basically speaks to it.
     
  12. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    If you want even more pointed, I'd swear there used to be $15 seats in the old place, and so the tickets are doubling -- trending white tablecloth in what the bill says -- but they are still serving inexpensive food. They transitioned the menu from gritty country cooking to Latin fusion. But they want me to pay like it's a nice place when I see some of the same chefs in the back and the food hasn't exponentially taken off too.
     
  13. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suspect there are probably 3,000 - 4,000 season tickets that would be sold if Canetti was not there and we had a better owner
     
    CeltTexan repped this.
  14. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

    Jun 21, 2004
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have been looking for a reason to become a season ticket holder again. Its got to be worth my 45 minute drive to the stadium though.
     
  15. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You probably won’t get it with this regime. Years of cheaping on everything and no customer service isn’t going to change. The Dynamo are like an unrenovated Denny’s on a major highway - enough customer traffic to survive and turn a profit but not a place anyone sees as a destination.
     
    El Naranja repped this.
  16. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're the Denny's of a league that serves Americas to Ruth's Chris to Starbucks and in the Revs case Applebee's!
    Super.
     
    Westside Cosmo and Beavis Stiffler repped this.
  17. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    I had fun tonight. Pre-gamed hard, showed up and bought a $11 ticket, hung out with friends, drank some more beers inside, enjoyed the Boswell tribute.

    PS - the soccer sucked.
     
    naranjableeder and Beavis Stiffler repped this.
  18. Soccergodlss

    Soccergodlss Member+

    Jun 21, 2004
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least the ticket prices were realistic this time.
     
    Westside Cosmo repped this.
  19. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    I convinced 5 other friends to buy tix to the cup final.

    I have bad feeling I am going to get embarrassed again.
     
  20. Beavis Stiffler

    Beavis Stiffler Member+

    May 14, 2011
    Naranja With Attitude. Straight Outta Houston.
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Stoppage time especially the last 5 or 10 minutes sucks.
     
    CeltTexan repped this.
  21. OneTerryHurlock

    Aug 24, 2006
    Denny’s on the coaching staff as well

    Bloody A licensed coach you can find 10of those at Meyer Park on a Saturday afternoon coaching kids games which is were Wilmer Clown belongs
     
  22. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate to pick on one guy, but this Jay Adelberg fellow from the Dynamo ticket sales team has a few replies to a tweet on not buying tickets in protest. Read the below tweet thread:



    This mentality that the fans should continue to buy tickets to reward poor play, inadequate ownership investment, and FO incompetence (Not to mention poor customer service) is just absurd and goes to show you that the Dynamo FO just does not care about its customers.

    In what other business could you sell a deficient and defective product and then tell the customers "if you don't keep ordering this crappy product, we won't be able to improve it"? Its retarded logic
     
    CeltTexan repped this.
  23. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Dynamo ownership group/company I believe is Forever Orange LLC. I assume that the owners/partners (technically owners of membership interests in the LLC) have an LLC operating agreement that covers the operation of the team and likely triggers on investments, capital calls, etc. Who knows how it is constructed, but you got a lot of real estate/private equity guys in there that often have a model to load up businesses with debt, run very cash-conservative, then flip for profit.

    I don't believe that it is coincidental that the Dynamo appeared to cut back investment in the team/stadium staffing/customer service in the year after Brener took majority control (December of 2015). Harris County real property records showed that Bank of America loaned the group money that was secured by the stadium lease that looked to be about larger than the amount of the original Amegy Bank loan (looked like they took out the original debt and replaced it with a larger loan) so they may have used the stadium lease to lever up the purchase.

    Point is, this ownership group in a market that would probably be considered a top half to top-third market in MLS spend like they are the Florida Marlins of MLS
     
  24. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    Yes how much control does Brener actually have on certain amounts of expenditures without agreement from the ‘investor group’?
     
  25. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    Has the plan all along just to cut expenditures / streamline operations, service the debt, and then wait on distribution of money from the league from the new franchises buy in fees before any purchase of players of higher value?
     
    CeltTexan repped this.

Share This Page