Rumor: Post World Cup Coaching Search Thread

Discussion in 'Colombian National Team' started by usfan1234, Jun 18, 2018.

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  1. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    I don't think this game plan would work. Ultimately, you live and die by your decisions. While some of the names will change on the team, if you expect and what different, than Pekerman should not be on your list. You hire who you hire based on what's been proven and what they can provide within their skillset and will. This is specially the case with Pekerman who comes from an older school of management.

    I'm not 100% sure he's our guy but I would like to see a Pekerman with the chance to play with the best 23 on the roster. The last qualification cycle was ridiculous for any DT with the amount of changes, injuries and form for almost the entire team. Same can be said for the WC, where he never had a fully fit 23 at any point during the WC.
     
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  2. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Ugh I think I'd rather go with Osorio then Pekerman, Pekerman I don't think can take us any further.
     
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  3. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am willing to give Pekerman one last shot. But if we don't do well in the Copa America then things may change.
    We have to focus on winning some tournaments. We have the talent to win and hopefully they stay healthy (and in the case of Cardona behave accordingly.)
     
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  4. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I'm not sure which one I prefer but I'd like to see something different, meaning no more Pekerman, at this point. And there is the Copa America ahead. If shit hits the fan you can always fire Osorio.
     
  5. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia


    I guess this means he is the next coach
     
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  6. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I know some people want to see something different for the sake of seeing something different. Regime change is like that in all aspects of life.

    I however am curious to see something different too. But we can still have Pekerman here to see it play out.
    I want to see what Pekerman can do with a healthy James, Quinterito and Cardona on the same roster.
    I think Pekerman can get the most out of those three out of the remaining coaching candidates.
     
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  7. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    A veces ser diferente.........implica ser diferente y peor de lo que se era.
     
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  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Unless the USA can give Osorio more power and artistic freedom to do what he wants to do. The Colombian Federations could put the clamps on him in many respects.
     
  9. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Pekerman is a safe play, he'll grind out results. Osorio is higher risk for sure, but he could take us to heights we've never hit and is the option if we want to shoot for the stars. Pekerman did not do a good job over the last 4 years, he had a lot of time and alot of games that he didn't get the team playing well at all and dropped the ball at the world cup and made poor decisions. There is a great tactician in Osorio if he can put it all together, Colombia would be his best chance to do it, he should have a solid knowledge of the players.
     
  10. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    You ever heard of the phrase better safe than sorry?

    While I am naturally an entrepreneur who takes risks personally, I am not like that when it comes to our NT team. I rather stay with Pekerman and remain relevant than risk it on Osorio who can take us back to oblivion and whose ceiling is the same as Pekerman's anyways.
     
  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Pekerman did a decent job in my opinion with the turnover he had to deal with. Key players and leaders from 2014 were either not available or just out of form.


    I don't know if it is worth the risk to bring in Osorio just yet.
    I would back him 100% if he is named manager and think he can do a good job.
    But I also know that many of his experiments could blow up in his face which can be very detrimental to our runs for a Copa and in qualifying.
     
  12. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    yep. Some folks here think of Osorio's achievements as groundbreaking but if you look at his results (and play), they will see that he's actually very conservative. The guy is a hard worker. He knows his stuff but let's be honest, had he done the SAME for Colombia :

    Colombia 7-1 loss to Chile in Copa America, Copa Fed loss in QF (unable to beat any 'copero' teams), Copa Oro 3rd place, 1 great game in WC2018.

    would these results not have you screaming for a new 'change'... nothing revolutionary about Osorio.
     
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  13. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The worst part of all is that mexico only scored more than 2 goals in 2 matches...and agsint honduras and trinidad y tobago......

    i dont found evidence to say how great osorio will be with us because of his tactics..........in world cup received 6 goals and scored 3......we scored 6 and received 3 (2 pks)
     
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  14. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    We qualified on the last day just barely, we wouldn't have got out of the group stages if it was not for Mina saving our ass against Senegal who was most likely the better team. It could have been very easy for our last cycle to be in ruins and we played basically one really good game offensively (Poland). Also my biggest worry is that Pekerman is too reliant and trusts too much the old guys, that's a good human quality but he is holding the team back.

    We can't progress unless we are forward thinking and risks, why should we settle for just being relevant? That's a weak mentality, we have the players right now and our best player ever is going to be in his peak years, we need to shoot higher. In business or in sports you have to move on when there is no progress, these players will be better off for his ideas and coaching, now more ideas will grow them further.
     
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  15. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The convenient info of this poster:

    Colombia would pass with the 0-0......Japan lost agsint poland........so mina goal was tranquility...so we dont have to exxagerate

    If Colombia would lost playing like senegal did.....i dont imagine no one here...saying colombia was better, senegal was lucky of have koulibally....
     
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  16. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Let's put some context. If you're talking about WCQ, than yes we qualified on the last day. BUT, with the exception of Brazil and the bottom 2 (Bolivia, Ecuador and Vzla) every team had some type of shot to make it to the WC up to the very last game. We qualified for a direct spot as well not a repechaje, which also counts for some glory in such a tight race.

    World cup, we were in what was considered to be a "Group of Life". Any team, prior to the 1st game, was rated fairly even with most giving a slight edge to Colombia taking the group. Prior to the WC start, when EVERYONE saw that list, with the exception of Cardona, no one could really argue that those were the best 23. You could make a case for Abel and Roca, etc but remember this is a 'proceso' that starts out years back. Pekerman decided to take his chances with what he knows vs a player that has had no time to adapt to his ideas and system. Many teams with the exception of a very few (England group, Uruguay group), came into that 3rd game with a need for a + result and some left the big stage early.

    Then, you have the injuries. The James impact left us a different team. The Fabra injury in particular was also specially hurtful not because Fabra is this great defensive wingman but because he was the best that we had so far and he came from a year with solid form at Boca. Mojica was still raw and unproven for us. That 1st counterattack goal vs Japan started out on Mojica's side and he looked completely out of sync with Izzy. Vs England he was also fruitless in his attacks and would leave gaps behind.
     
  17. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    I think these are all fair points that I'd agree with. My biggest issue is how we did in competitive games vs the bigger teams, in qualifying we didn't do well. There were a lot of injuries and there was some transition but that is true for most sides and its the coaches job to make the best of the situation. I don't have a big problem with the list of players he took on paper, but he took a few players that were just coming off injury and even started one who instantly got injured (Abel). If you look back at Pekerman's history he also benched Messi at the world cup for their crucial knock out game. Sure there are a lot of factors, but he tends to make some head scratching decisions in big games.

    Overall if we throw out the results, over this cycle we simply were not good enough at all with how we played, we rarely got in an offensive rhythm, defensively I don't have a lot of complaints but we couldn't attack effectively or keep and progress possession consistently at all.

    Pekerman was great for two years for the 2014 cycle, but he's produced a poor product since that and has had 4 years to get the team to another level. Playing the 3 holding mids and the lineup he did vs England for me is completely unacceptable from a coach at that level, you parked the bus vs a poor offensive side and played 3 stagnant midfielders that can't can't break lines off or on the ball. I don't think there are any good coaches who would have done that, he also kept making the same mistakes playing Falcao and Bacca together, he is showing real problems in his thought processes and I for one wouldn't want to take the risk if this continues or gets worse.
     
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  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I am not going to hold the three defense midfield formation against Pekerman simply because James was injured.
    We all know if James were healthy the team would have been in better position to advance and attack. Without James he had to do what he thought was best. And it would have worked if only the players would have made the penalties.
     
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  19. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    With James injured he still had to design a game plan with a threat to attack. Anybody can see it was a mistake, when you play 3 holding stagnant defensive mids you are very predictable and it allows you to easily contain and overload the attackers, which is exactly what happened. He could have played a block of 3 but not played Sanchez and played Uribe instead and he would have been fine, Sanchez and Barrios together don't work. Just because James was injured doesn't mean you go complete park the bus, and if you do why did he play Falcao isolated up top who did nothing? No excuse for that, he made it completely easy on England to game plan, no speed to get behind and counter with Falcao and 3 midfielders who can't dribble or won't make runs into the attack is easy as hell to play against and it showed.

    Even Jose Mourinho the master of the overly defensive lineups plays a forward who can hold the play up and can work on his own up top and won't play 3 holding mids, he'll play at most 2 with one box to box who can get into the attack.
     
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  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    He obviously felt most comfortable with the three midfielders out there.
    I am not going to hold it against him at all. You are assuming that he did not experiment in practice with various lineups. Has it occurred to you that maybe the lineup he settled on was the one that looked best in practice?

    And as I said, if the players did what they are supposed to and make their penalties we would have advanced.

    I personally cannot criticize a manager who did everything he could to to put us in a position to advance. Especially since I believe the better team advanced. Without James England was a better team in my mind and no one could convince me otherwise.
     
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  21. lurkerhp

    lurkerhp Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago
    having james injured isn’t an excuse to play so conservatively the way he did.

    we played england not germany.


    falcao

    muriel quintero. cuadrado

    uribe barrios

    looks much more suitable for colombia
     
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  22. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    As I said, we don't know what he experimented with in practice and which lineups looked good or bad in training. Obviously in his mind the one he put out there must have impressed him the most.

    When you lose a marquee player like James it is something that most Managers would see as problem to solve. He was very important to us as we saw when he was healthy against Poland.
     
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  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Oh and there is no Guarantee Osorio would have put Muriel and Uribe out there.

    For all we know he would have played an even more defensive minded lineup based on his history.
     
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  24. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    I'm sure he did everything he thought was correct to get us through, anyone of us would have done the same, but does that mean that we should be in the job? With your reasoning no one could be blamed for anything because they always tried their best. That can't be the case, or else we'd have no basis to evaluate decisions.

    Soccer theory is a necessity for a top coach, these are not high level mistakes he made, these were basic soccer theory. If you study game theory its very clear that you're actions have to be considered both as yourself as a team and how the other team will react, which is why from a game theory stand point the 3 holding mids is very poor tactically, and with Falcao starting alone up front it makes it even worse.
     
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  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #750 HomietheClown, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    You are not accurately depicting why I believe Pekerman should keep his job. That is a different issue.

    What I am saying is that I am not going to hold the England match against him when it comes to whether or not we should keep him.

    I think the positives he brings to the table should be focused upon along with the issue that I am not sure the alternatives at manager are better suited to help us win Championships.
     
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