Match 51: ESP : RUS - KUIPERS (NED)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by code1390, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Yes!

    PH
     
  2. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I understand your point very well, but it is moot in this context. Which is why I did not say you were wrong.
    This is the point:
    For the most part, as I explained in my previous post, almost everyone accepts this style of officiating at this level.
    As another poster has pointed out, it applies in other sports as well at the elite level.
    I have heard people ask how many times did M. Jordan foul out?
    I fully expect that Mr. Kuipers will be given another match.

    PH
     
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Actually those are major parts of a good referee's ability.

    PH
     
  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I think that is too cramped of a reading of many of the views here. I don’t see anyone arguing that the WC should be called the same way as a 12U game. Rather, I see concerns that what has not been cautioned has encouraged a kind of play that we’d rather not see at this level. there is, of course, a spectrum. I do t see anyone arguing against the idea of man-management or that there are things that can(and should) be let slide at this level—I see people arguing that (in some/many) games, the officiating has gone too far down that spectrum.
     
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Agree.
     
  6. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    And I think we’ll likely see the official FIFA Futuro instruction (and other instruction from FIFA) show a lot of these same challenges and indicate the correct decision is yellow or red — instead of the decisions made by the referees at this World Cup.
     
  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    This is correct, but not really true in this match.
    Others, (e.g. ENG-TUN) and the 2010 WC Final are better examples of too far down as are many games in WC 2014.
    The bar keeps moving but overall this WC is generally not as bad.
     
  8. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    They have already done this at previous Futuro but it just regresses once the next WC starts!

    PH
     
    Bradley Smith repped this.
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Describes pretty much every NHL season. They love to say that a penalty in October should be a penalty in March, but it rarely works out that way. And I've worked multiple Stanley Cup playoff third periods and overtime periods where it's not readily apparent that the referees remembered to bring their whistles back onto the ice.
     
  10. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Wrong. Deliberate means whatever the CR thinks it means on whatever day they are refereeing, which is precisely the problem.

    That's why you have all this nonsense about "natural vs unnatural body positions" and "making the defender bigger".....they are attempts to define "deliberate" because the Laws need to be clarified and made more detailed.
     
  11. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Well, if you're in contention for another match at the WC, isn't your candidacy going to be enhanced be showing that you are willing to make the tough, unpopular (and in this case, correct) call, as opposed to taking the easy way out and hiding behind the "nobody else makes this call either" argument?
     
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Quite frankly my dear, No! (with apologies to Rhett Butler).
    You do exactly what Kuipers did! Sorry but Code is correct, that is just the way it is. Generally refs who make this call get crucified.
    He had already given the PK, obvious to us, but with some appeals about "natural position" etc., and the claim in
    ET was not absolute stonewall. Even Ramos knew this, he is the master of it usually when he is defending.

    For further verification you only have to read the post from AndyMead. He understands it and he is only a photographer.

    PH
     
  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I could very well be wrong, but I have a recollection of Nishimura giving them out to fellow referees, at Brazil 2014 maybe.
     
    sulfur repped this.
  14. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see this is your first World Cup. Welcome to FIFA!
     
  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Change the whole damn handling rule. Any handling deliberate or not is called.

    Why? The whole basis of the sport is not using your hands!!

    But it is an indirect infraction, unless the ball was going into the goal...
     
  16. jesta

    jesta Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    kuipers was great. I have a strong feeling he is going to get the final!
     
  17. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    I think that the part you are missing is that the call wouldn't just be unpopular with fans, it would be unpopular with FIFA/ref committee too. He isn't hiding behind the "nobody else makes this call" but rather he is following the instructions as they are given at that level.
     

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