I did mention Arellano: "La Pina." Bravo had a great career. Even if he is considered a flop he played it all from Copa Libertadores, Olympics to a World Cup. He went abroad and is Chivas all time leading goal scorer. Venado Medina narrowly escaped a career ending injury. He never was quite the same but he still won a league title at Chivas. I never thought Tilon had as much hype as other players.