Found a few: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...ing-group-reform-aussie-governance-structure/ https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/new...-congress-review-working-group-for-footb.html Although, I’m not sure what the issue is.. It seems to be related to how the FFA is organized, but I’ll keep digging.
I believe that mandatory pro/rel it's a directive from the Asian Federation, not FIFA. Hence Qatar has an 18 team second division with 14 reserve teams and only 4 independent teams eligible for promotion.
AFC includes it in their ratings for their champions league. Australia has, up to this point, been exempted from it, but I believe the AFC used it to force a country (not S. Korea, but another) to implement it or risk losing their AFC CL spot.
Probably not a worry with CONCACAF, though, if the two richest leagues don't have pro/rel (although I can't remember if the Liga MX proposal is a done deal or not).
I haven't been able to find the reqs, but understanding was that pro/rel is part of a grading criteria for rating leagues and helping determine CL slots or even whether you compete in that rather than the AFC Cup. As a result, leagues are implementing it whether it's actually useful or not (hence the Qatar situation mentioned by @Paul Berry ).
This seems to give a bit more background - it's from earlier in the process and highlight's FIFA's influence a bit more: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...scles-in-australian-footballs-governance-saga
Also, I stumbled across another example of a team in a pro/rel league that was relocated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Dynamo_Saint_Petersburg#The_move_to_Sochi FC Dynamo Saint Petersburg was an association football club from Saint Petersburg, in Northwest Russia. The club was one of the oldest clubs in the city, and until 1984 was its most popular football club. I can't remember if this was in @Paul Berry's list.
If the CAS case and antitrust suit raise any issues though, especially if the representatives from the lower leagues can form some kind of united front, FIFA might come in and try to exert some authority. Of course, MLS is somewhat distinct in that it was born directly as a result of a FIFA mandate. That might give USSF some leverage: "You demanded we set MLS up on a dodgy landscape as a condition for USA 1994, now you're demanded we open the league and the hundreds of millions in investment that created and sustained it, to serious financial risk?" I'm not sure FIFA with its penchant for leveraging tax exemption, loosening of laws and other 'criteria' it pushes onto host nations, will be especially eager to have such demands held up for scrutiny. And that's just the stuff that's just the legal stuff.
Liga MX has only semi-suspended pro/rel. 9 of the 15 teams in the Ascenso are certified for promotion, so if one of them wins the promotion spot, there is pro/rel. Tapachula won the promotion spot this past season, but was not certified, so there was no pro/rel.
Oh. Well that's not really suspension at all then. Technically, there are hundreds, if not thousands of English clubs that aren't eligible for promotion above a certain level. I'm not sure if any country doesn't have a system that limits teams based on infrastructure and finances.
Looks a little sketchier than that? The league will allow only the "promotion of certified clubs who meet the participation requirements included in the internal rules of the Liga MX. At the same time, the possibility that the club that finishes in last place of the (relegation table) will be able to save its place in the division at which time it will make an economic contribution to be utilized in the benefit of both divisions (LigaMX/Ascenso MX) in accordance with the project of improving our soccer." https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/so...tweaks-promotion-relegation-system/ar-BBJNO1K So it looks more like a system of indulgences to keep from getting relegated?
Yes, in this situation where a non-certified team can't be promoted, the team in the relegation position has to pay a few million dollars to stay up. Otherwise they are still relegated and Liga MX plays the next season with 17 clubs. I don't know what they would do in the future to increase the league back to 18.
I thought it was FFA that imposed pro/rel, not FIFA. I don't think FIFA would try and interfere with UEFA which is it's main source of revenue. Also, financially, success in the US has FIFA's biggest potential upside and I don't see FIFA upsetting the applecart. If pro/rel was mandated, USSF could do what Qatar did, which is create a D2 full of reserve teams with only a couple of independent teams being eligible for promotion.
I think the FBI are too busy investigating the assassination of JFK by the CIA and the faking of the moon landings by Stanley Kubrick to worry too much about a MLS/USSF conspiracy.
The interesting thing here is that accepting AFC/FIFA sanctioning may cost the ISL the exact thing that made it popular. The ISL used to require its teams to sign a minimum of 9 foreign players in a roster of 18. The 3+1 foreign player rule in AFC competitions would have been untenable for the ISL under its old roster rules, because even a team with the maximum possible number of domestic players could only afford to lose two Indian players to injury or suspension. A third injury or suspension would make it impossible to field a starting eleven. Over the two seasons, the ISL has gone to a maximum of 7 foreign players, with plans to continue reducing the limit by one per year until it's in line with other Asian leagues.
I'm inclined to agree. This came from a debate on <REDACTED> with some pro/rel advocates who directed me to these scenarios to counters to my challenge that teams are free to set up an alternative D1 and FIFA doesn't tend to get involved with how federations setup their leagues. My response was that these were less FIFA intervening off their own steam and more mediating and reviewing based on a scenario arising. In the India scenario, FIFA did appoint a team to review the situation and the outcome was to have them merger, implement pro/rel and not restrict numbers of teams by market. But again, this was because the two "D1s" were at loggerheads, not that FIFA just jumped in.
Since the thread is slow I figured that I would pull a Ruben Rivas and share how I have seen pro/rel work from my perspective, a parent’s perspective. Keep in mind this is purely anecdotal and from only one perspective. It will be long but it’s an example of how pro/rel works in the United States. This is the story of my son’s soccer career. It may sound like bragging but I want to bring another perspective. He first started playing at 3-4 years old at the the local community league. He was pretty good. Mostly because he understood the rules and had watched the game on tv. Basically, he knew not to pick it up and kick it toward the goal. In kindergarten, the former coach ‘retired’ and we moved to a new team. The next season, 1st grade, he played for a neighboring community league. The next year we moved to a mod soccer league closer to home. We self-promoted him to play a year up with 3rd graders. He did well and we self-promoted him up to the premier league program in 3rd grade. He played up again against 4th graders and he was placed on the B team. His team was placed in the top league in the state as it was the first year of 9v9 soccer. Those ages could still play 6v6. The club and coach figured they had enough talent to compete. The A team played up a year in a lower league. My son’s team were lucky to not give up more than 6 goals. They rarely scored. In the spring the club self-demoted to the team to a more appropriate league. In fourth grade, we as parents, relegated him to age level soccer. This is where the true effects of pro/rel began to take effect. The team was placed into division 3 in the state league. The league operated with promotion and relegation. They were a middling team in the fall season and won the league in the spring, thus earning promotion. However, they lost a few of their good players and the coach new they would struggle, so in his 5th grade year the coach opted out of the promotion and placed them back into 3rd division. Again, they were a middling team. In his 5th grade year he was promoted to tryout with the state ODP program and made the training group of 36 players. They didn’t play games at that age but they practiced. That was good for him. In 6th grade, it was more of the same. They were a middling to upper 3rd division team. Again, he played for the state ODP training pool of 36 players. In 7th grade they got a new coach who brought a couple of players with him who were playing up to play on age. During the summer, my son was relegated to playing outside midfielder. He had played center mid up until then. However, with good play he was promoted to center midfielder by the fall season. That summer he again tried out for the ODP program. This year he was relegated, or cut. In the spring of his 7th grade year he attended an open tryout for the local MLS academy developmental program. After the first round he was promoted to attend the second round. After the second round he was relegated back to his home club. In 8th grade the birth year switch occurred and he would have been on the older side of the team, the DOC of the club promoted him to play a year up. He played well and was asked to trial with the local MLS squad’s developmental program. He was promoted to the practices. They run 8 week sessions and after 8 weeks some kids get relegated and new kids get promoted into the program. He played the last sessions of the year, avoiding relegation each time. For his 9th grade year he was promoted to play full time with the MLS academy. When the season began they switched formations and he struggled and was relegated to playing part time. He played many half games. He was relegated to the bench for the entire game a couple of times and left off the roster for one game. In the middle of the season, some kids left for national camp and he did well enough to earn the coach’s trust, thus getting promoted to more consistent playing time. At a big tournament, the national team coach spotted him and he was invited to a camp. The camp was run with a pro/rel feel and he was promoted to the A team. He went to the next camp as well which was a tournament in Europe. He started the opening game against the host country but didn’t played ok but not well enough. The kid he was competing with played well in the next game and by the playoffs my son was relegated to the bench. When the next camp occurred, he was relegated to not attending. The season is winding down. He is always worried they are going to let him go when they find someone better. On the surface you’d think he will play for the MLS club the next year, but he never knows. They just brought a kid in on a trial from some other academy and a rumor is they are bringing another player from another academy. So, he is constantly trying to prove himself. In conclusion, he has played in games that have a bearing on whether his team can move up a division and he has desperately wanted to win 3rd division and move up. There have been tears along the way regarding that. He has played games that have no bearing on promotion or relegation and tears have been shed over those as well. His team struggled of late and didn’t win their conference, he was bummed. He has been promoted and relegated on an individual level. Each time he gets relegated it tends to fuel him and he tends to improve. When he gets promoted, he tends to get excited and improve. I’m not sure that promotion and relegation for teams and youth does a whole lot for player development. For the player the game must mean something. To develop they had better be able to self-motivate and self-reflect. I think player development is largely an individual thing with teams providing opportunities.
Apparently the Champions League preliminary qualifiers started this week. Playing games right in the middle of a World Cup. Do I recall claims that MLS was a joke for doing that...?
I never understood that criticism. The notion that a pro league can afford to take a month off once every four years is nuts.
Which is partially what’s been going on for years. This just makes it easier for the “relegated” team to stay up instead of having to buy a lower level club being promoted, or a hapless fellow LigaMX, relocated and rebrand them to the same as the club being relegated and essentially trade spots.
From The Economist: "America ought to be doing better (see article). One possible reason for the failure of its men’s teams is that America’s professional soccer league is a cartel. Salaries are capped, and the lower-division teams in which domestic players might develop cannot be promoted." https://www.economist.com/leaders/2...-the-world-cup-in-russia-is-worth-celebrating Too bad they then picked Germany...
The Panama Tunisia game, which has no meaning and there is nothing to play for, has been entertaining for the first third of the game.