[NNGR]Grudging Ambivalence: The World Cup Thread

Discussion in 'LA Galaxy' started by barroldinho, Jun 15, 2018.

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  1. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Did you see LD's tweet about that? :D

    In fact, did you see his Wells Fargo ad? I found it amusing but if England didn't qualify and we had Harry Kane doing a commercial where he sported a Germany shirt, it would not be well received.

    But then we're talking about the nation that was livid after Euro 96 when Gareth Southgate appeared in a Pizza Hut commercial that mocked him for his penalty shootout miss. People couldn't believe that he'd make light of such a serious thing! :eek:
     
  2. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In Chicharito's defence, I was wearing my Man Utd shirt with his name on it. That's Kryptonite to any player.
     
  3. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Five minutes in, England is putting on a clinic on how not to score when inside the penalty box...
     
  4. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually saw that after. Pretty funny.

    Yeah, folks are pretty pissed at LD on that and I can't really blame them (as someone else said, imagine Neymar encouraging Brazilians to support Argentina in the final after Brazil lost in 2014).
     
  5. Beirut

    Beirut Member+

    Feb 3, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I don't think it helped that he was paid to tweet that and I think it was made even worse that he tried to stir up some real political stuff to cover it.

    I just don't think it was a wise tweet and I'm glad he went back on it and deleted it.

    If he wants to be a champion for Mexico and latinos everywhere (and immigrant rights), he can do much much better. MUCH BETTER.
     
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  6. 7E23

    7E23 Member+

    Jul 7, 2008
    Long Beach
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So after watching the first half of the Panama match, we should have kept/paid Penedo. How did he do the 2nd half? I saw the final score, it was only a matter of time before Belgium broke through.
     
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  7. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was thinking exactly the same.
     
  8. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I agree. It's no secret I'm a big fan of LD but hard to back him on that one.
     
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  9. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    I thought everyone was upset that it was for Pizza Hut, which at the time I recall made American Pizza Hut food positively gourmet by comparison. :)

    But yeah, count me in the camp that doesn’t like LD supporting Mexico. Supporting a bitter rival for some odd regional pride thing just doesn’t compute.
     
  10. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I grudgingly gave credit to Mexico for their win, but that doesn't mean I hope they go through. I hope they crash out just like they always do. LD has the right to think what he thinks (I support his politics, but that has nothing to do with the national soccer team), and for that matter, get paid to be an athlete sponsor (I don't understand the outrage on this, did people wake up yesterday?) - but sorry, I personally can't root for Mexico.

    Now when Panama plays England? That's another story! (Waiting for the inevitable Blas Perez moment where he goads an English defender into doing something stupid). John Stones' miss from the 4 today still has me giggling.
     
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  11. Vindo310

    Vindo310 Member+

    Mar 19, 2009
    South Bay LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow LD really pissed me off. It made me think totally differently about his whole career. Maybe JK was right and he didn’t have the heart and drive.

    I want players that bleed red white and blue. I’m happy that Boca and Herc came out saying F that. Boca was a good captain and still is.

    ******** LD saying support Mexico and ******** him saying to Boca that you’re a of Mexican heritage so you should support them.

    I’m Mexican ethnically and ******** that team. I’m American and I support the team of my country. I will never support the rival of my country. I will never support the dirty players of that team. It’s hard enough for me to have Gio on this team.
     
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  12. Vindo310

    Vindo310 Member+

    Mar 19, 2009
    South Bay LA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Btw I wish we still had Panedo. He had a great game even with the loss.
     
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  13. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Okay, let's not rewrite history.

    LD showed plenty of heart and drive for the USMNT and is ingrained in some of its biggest moments.

    I can see why USMNT fans would be upset with this Mexico stuff but you can't take his career from him. The reasons for JK leaving him out aren't suddenly justified because Donovan has used questionable judgement in this case.

    Personally, while I understand US fans not wanting to follow the Mexico, I've no issue with those who have decided to for this WC. I personally support England because that is where I was born and raised, I support the USMNT when they aren't playing in England, because this is where I live and where my late wife is from.

    I also have a lot of friends who follow Mexico, so it was nice to see them get that result.
     
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  14. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me too. Just replace England with Guam. And add about 95 spots in the FIFA world rankings....
     
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  15. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I can also appreciate his explanation that he grew up playing soccer with Mexican kids and exposure to their passion being part of what pushed him to become pro.
     
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  16. kaburu

    kaburu Member+

    Jul 12, 2009
    los angeles
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't Harry Kane have more WC goals than Wayne Rooney after his first WC match? Dude seems to be the real deal and has the added benefit of being the Englishest looking footballer I've seen in awhile. Kudos to England!

    I saw an interesting panel with Gerrard, Lampard, and Rio Ferdinand assessing what happened with England's ill-fated "Golden Generation". They talked about how there was a fierce club loyalty that kept the English players from building a closer bond in NT camp and that there were club cliques. Really interesting discussion. Thoughts @Lazy Assed Assassin and @barroldinho ?
     
  18. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    I mean maybe, but Real & Barca players seem to work together just fine. Ditto Bayern & Borussia; Inter & AC. It also didn’t seem to affect their play in qualifying. I think it’s just an after the fact attempt to rationalize their failure. I also think they bought in to the “golden generation” media hype and typical English over-estimation of their objective ability.

    You could probably write a doctoral thesis on England’s failures at major tournaments, but for me I think club loyalties would be far down the list of causes and ironically that excuse is part of the problem England suffer from. Rather than accept the notion they weren’t as good as the hype and wilted under the spotlight they look for a scapegoat.

    I see the England hype train is pulling out of the dock again after yesterday’s performance, but I’m not convinced. The talk of a “new” England mentality is identical to when Beckham scored in stoppage time against Greece to qualify for the 2002 World Cup. I didn’t see anything yesterday to suggest they won’t get handled easily by a true elite team.
     
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  19. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I doubt he'd make that up, which makes it even more frustrating if true.

    Something that this suggests - and it explains issues I said about that generations for years, while it was actually happening - that the players held far too much sway over what went on.

    The clearest explanation for that generation's failure was the consistent, nonsensical approach to cram all the 'names' into the starting XI. Lampard and Gerrard were the biggest indicators of that.

    Both players were primarily attack-minded midfielders. They could pitch in with other duties but wherever they were nominally placed according to the team sheet, they were most influential in and around the box. Indeed, both Chelsea and Liverpool were somewhat built around both players in their prime.

    Whatever formation England used and wherever Lampard and Gerrard were "deployed", they operated pretty much the same as they did for their clubs. Gerrard could be started as the deeper midfielder, a RW, a CM in a double pivot and he'd still move in-field and operate on the edge of the area. So basically, he and Lampard would jockey for position in that zone, which is why our midfield was often ineffectual against solid opposition.

    Of course, when things went right, those guys would be involved in the goals, so the issue barely registered with the British media til late on (and even then, it was more that they had disappointed, with little analysis as to why). It was also telling when bringing in players like Gareth Barry, Owen Hargreaves and Scott Parker, especially in place of one of the two, that our midfields tended to improve.

    The most heartbreaking outcome of all this, though (and yes, I'm partisan on this) was the criminal misuse of Paul Scholes which I feel led him to retire from international football too early. Scholes is frequently cited by elite midfielders that came shortly after him, up to today (Xavi, a strong example) as a huge inspiration. More so than his England contemparies... including Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham. Yet to accommodate Gerrard and Lampard (with Becks on the right), Scholes was routinely shunted to LW for England.

    The man who should have been dictating England's tempo, the guy with the superior "soccer IQ" was shunted out because the England team was often lined-up like a fantasy football team or "dream XI" rather than one intended to facilitate as system of play.

    At first I thought it was Eriksson being incompetent, then McClaren being incompetent but when Fabio ****ing Capello of tactically-phenomenal '90s Milan fame started dong it, I was confused. Was I just wrong? But in later years, my way of thinking seems to have seeped into the mainstream.

    Now that I hear this about cliques, that would certainly make more sense. If the players were able to do this, then clearly the managers weren't taking enough control. I'd guess that if the players were also failing to bond and forming their own groups off the field, it would follow that they were probably exercising some kind of influence both on the field and I'm thinking now, even in team selection.

    We know that John Terry played a part in a few 'mutinees' at Chelsea. Sir Alex Ferguson wouldn't put up with that but it was certainly reported that in Moyes's tenure, Ferdinand and some of the old guard did push back against him.

    Maybe that's it.

    Note that even though Tunisia did frustrate England for spells yesterday, there was more of a cohesive system at play. David Bolt did a good article about this the other day and I certainly attribute it to a lack of "names" that must be fielded at all costs. If what Rio says is true, then **** all of them for wasting probably a couple of decades of serious talent at the international level - him included.

    (might make this a blog entry...)
     
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  20. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh crap. Is that the UK media saying it?

    If so, the reasonable expectations and reduction in pressure were fun while they lasted. I'd be delighted with a QF run. If we can overcome a power, then I'll be ecstatic.

    However, if they hype-beast has awakened, I anticipate the "Gareth Sproutgate" headline, with his face superimposed onto a sprout, at our next unconvincing 1-0 victory. (more blog potential...)
     
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  21. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the original piece. It's an insightful discussion and my summary doesn't quite do it justice. I'd love to see an interview like this with the core of US players from 2005-2014 or so.


    I have heard that before about Scholes (it seems like a growing conventional wisdom that he was the most special of a really talented generation of English midfielders). Unfortunately, I didn't watch him much in his prime.
     
  22. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iran is literally playing a 6-4-0 right now. And it’s working for them.....
     
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  23. TrickHog

    TrickHog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Until it didn’t......
     
  24. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I am watching the Argentina / Croatia game. And I am thinking, "On the whole David Bingham is not all that bad."
     
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  25. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny thing: VW is still running the ad that suggests Americans should support Argentina because they have passion.

    It would be a kindness to pull that ad.
     

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