I love this discussion, and find it so valuable. Of course we all should look at this situation (as rare as it might be outside the pros) and see how we could do it better, and thanks for you guys’ opinions. The game coverage left off a lot of the stuff that led up to the Bedoya sendoff- I wish there was continuous coverage of the whole thing. I wonder as well about how different refs might have handled this and if it would have turned out differently. What would Geiger have done? Or Cakir? Or how about another “presence” type of ref like Kuipers or Webb? I personally was amazed how poised Stoica was in the middle of the whole thing- wasn’t intimidated at all to be in the middle and stood his ground. As much as I hate seeing refs struggle to get their red out, I really detest when refs back up, as it emboldens the pack. I think a certain amount of “don’t ******** with me” is important, especially for the next week’s ref. Stoica might get some guidance from pro about how this played out, but I bet the next time he does a game, the players might not test him so much.
I was really impressed to see the condemnation of the Philly players in the Union BS forum. Even biased fans knew that the 2 Philly players screwed their team.
As an aside, the current/new Adidas kit is awful for getting the red card out. Unlike the 2014 kit (which had a small tab to pull and one piece of Velcro at the middle of the pocket), these shorts have no tab to pull and there are two tiny pieces of Velcro — one on either side of the pocket. There’s no Velcro in the middle. The result is that when grabbing your red you typically get one of the Velcro pieces to disconnect, but the card gets caught on the other one. It makes for a very awkward draw of the card from the back pocket, sometimes taking much longer than it normally would.
Interesting. I'd been a bit perplexed about the comments about it being hard to get the card out of the back pocket.
Boy this could be a digression in this thread . . . In my front left shorts pocket I have my ref wallet with both cards (I find that easier to get out of the shorts than the shirt pocket). I've found I rarely actually use those cards. My front right shorts pocket is my yellow. I find that easier than dealing with the front pockets. I use the back right for the red. It is, I suppose, marginally harder to pull than the front, but I'm OK with that--the red is more significant, and if it slows me down marginally, I don't think that is a bad thing.
Does anyone really have issues with the OSI shorts and getting the card out of the back pocket? If it's an issue with the Adidas shorts then putting the red in the front left makes sense, but I've never found the large flap of OSI to be an issue.
I've never found that an issue with my OSI shorts. It's not slower because I fumble, but because its a less smooth arm motion. It's ultimately a matter of comfort for each ref--what I do works for me.
I have one red in the right back pocket and one red in the left shirt pocket, let’s me do whatever is more comfortable. Yellows go in right shorts and right shirt, same reason, but the one in my shorts is a “quick draw” to defuse a situation quickly if need be.
This could be a good thing. Theoretically 2CTs are not subject to appeal. One might argue or believe Stoica opted precisely for that route so it couldn't become a he said/he said case where MLS and/or the IRP opted to side with the player. If the appeal is allowed to proceed, maybe the public will get to learn all the details from the reports on Bedoya and Medunjanin. And then the Union and its players will look foolish to all except the most partisan fans and anti-referee zealots. It's more likely the appeal will just be shutdown on the technicality that the 2CTs cannot be appealed, but MLS disciplinary proceedings are like law in the Wild West right now, so who knows.
Jonathon Tannenwald, who covers Philly and MLS for the Philly paper and generally knows his stuff, tweeted that in certain circumstances a second yellow can be appealed. You can appeal second yellows in certain situations. This is one. https://t.co/djeRLlNnm4— Jonathan Tannenwald (@thegoalkeeper) June 4, 2018
Intriguing. You know his source or why this is a "certain circumstance?" I would think dissent is the LAST category of yellow card that should be subject to appeal, since there can be very little to no hard evidence in either direction. But, hey, MLS!
I would only think of things like mistaken identity could be appealed for the 2CT, which would have been handled by VAR anyways.
I'm hoping we get a frivolous appeal smackdown. Somehow I don't think the details of the dissent are going to go over well with the panel.
Looks like MLS flat-out changed the rules at some point and all 2CTs can be appealed. That was done rather, um, quietly: https://www.mlssoccer.com/league/official-rules/send-off-review-procedure
Well, the questions the IRP has to address are: Did the referee correctly identify the offense in accordance with the Laws of the Game? Is the disciplinary sanction applied appropriate for the offense? So I foresee only two ways this could get overturned. The first is that they simply don't believe Stoica's report, which would be problematic to say the least. The second would be that the report contains language that should have been classified as AL and resulted in a straight red, rather than a 2CT for dissent. That would be quite the technicality, but consistent with two "no" answers to the questions above and allow Bedoya to win his appeal under the premise that he was underpunished.
Is the body that decides a card can be rescinded the same as the one that can impose additional game suspensions?
Of course not. That would be too logical. Two totally different bodies. I really wish the DisCo had suspended Kljestan for his body slam a week ago on the same incident that the IRP overturned Adams' red card for the kick out. Such a massive discrepancy would have taken the mask off this charade and exposed the dysfunction more widely. But it was not to be.