Wenger stepping down at the end of the season. Who will take the reins?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by thebigman, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Also, I'm being silly. Emery deserves a chance. Though his record against elite managers is really, really, really bad.
     
  2. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I was worried by reports that Emery would have trouble communicating in English. Based on the press conference, his English isn't great, but it's good enough.

    My first joice was Jardim, based the attacking football Monaco play and his mentorship of young players. I believe the fact that they sit second in league 1, after losing four starters in the last summer transfer window is testament to his ability. But it doesn't appear Arsenal were ever interested.

    I was also interested in Arteta for two reasons, I liked him as a player, going back to his time at Everton, and I think he could be successful with Pep's tactical scheme at Arsenal.

    However, having landed on Emery, I think it's an interesting joice. It is a little bit of a gamble. I don't think it's Gazidis taking the safe option. If he was looking for a safe option he could have accommodated some of Allegri's concerns. I'm willing to sit back and give Emery a chance.
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jardim was also my first choice. But in fairness to Emery, he had to deal with issues similar to those for which Jardim has earned (deservedly so) praise. That being, at both Valencia and Sevilla, he had to deal with some of his top players getting poached every off-season. And yet still did fairly well in spite of that.
     
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  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    By the way, the arseblog podcast is hilarious, because they recorded it in front of an audience (that's how you know you've made it: when people will attend the recordings of your podcasts), and Ornstein tweeted the Emery news while they were recording.
     
  5. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. A little gamble, but IMHO smaller than the gamble w/ Arteta. And I agree about Gazidis, as much as he's flexing his muscle more, I don't think he's calling the shots alone. The choice is made so let's stop all the second guessing and get behind Emery!!
     
  6. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    p.s. I'm certainly no expert on all these personnel matters, but I heard month(s) ago that Jardim wasn't leaving Monaco period. His employers didn't want to let him go. At any given point in time, you go with the pool of available candidates. And for whatever the reasons were, our board chose Emery.
     
  7. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Emery is the best available

    Enrique wouldn’t come or allegri and arteta needs to coach somewhere first same as Henry and vieira (mls doesn’t count)

    Jardim was my number one but Monaco won’t let him go
     
  8. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Why do people think orn has intimate knowledge of the process? He only know what someone tells him.
     
  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Because he gets briefed from the front office

    Doesn't mean it will pan out but it tells you what story gazidis is putting out there at the time
     
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  10. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Everything he says doesn’t come from the front office. On the 18th, he said that arteta was the front runner. That was the day Ivan presented Unai to the board as the IRS choice along with a 100 page dossier to justify it.

    So the front office is telling ornstein that arteta is the guy, while IRS are preparing to present Emery to the board and setting up a meeting with Kroenke in Atlanta? That doesn’t make sense.

    People put way too much faith in these itk types. If ornstein doesn’t say it in “affirmative” type language then I’d assume he’s only getting info from people who have suspicion or feeling and not knowledge.
     
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  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Sigh...

    1. Ornstein is not a ITK - he is a BBC Journalist

    2. This is completely wrong and demonstrates a lack of understanding of how this stuff works - see for example Bayern Munich, Hoeness and Tuchel

    The fact that the FO briefed one way on Arteta but then things changed is the kind of thing that happens all the time. For instance, if Ornstein was being briefed by the media guys, he may not have looped in that Gazidis had gone the other way - indeed it seems clear that Gazidis changed course late in the process and may not have leaked that at all. This is how journos get hung out to dry time and time again.

    Bottom line is Arteta was late in the process and was inches away from the job.

    Why it changed at the last minute has since been briefed in a very pro Gazidis article to the guardian

    two guesses who planted that story
     
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  12. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Oooh, oooh, I know this one. Arsene Wenger planted the story!
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    At these times I simply say go read Honigstein who has explained time and time again how journo's print what they get told by clubs, then get called fake news by fans when plans change,

    His peak example was how SAF himself leaked to the media that Rooney was boozing, then denied it in the very next presser

    What one can say is that Arse was obviously briefing heavily one way, then at the last moment when with Emery

    It could be smokescreen but my guess is Gazidis simply changed his mind.
     
  14. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ornstein doesn't put stuff like this out without the club's permission. He's basically a mouthpiece for the club.

    What's your basis for saying that Emery was presented to the board on the 18th?

    If that's true, kind of a terrible thing to do to Arteta, who thought he'd had the job: should have told him privately beforehand.
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It's so cynical - but i guess illustrative of who holds all the cards now
     
  16. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's very Liverpool.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    If you've ever pitched for stuff at board level - you'd know you can lose these things literally in the final hours.

    I can accept that Emery did a better presentation, and then people got cold on Arteta
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think its very like Woody at Utd
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    For reference - this is the front office briefed story to establish the narrative of Gazidis as king maker

     
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  20. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    My best friend was high ranking crisis management communications type at a UK based firm here in NY that Arsenal shizzz is typically done to CYA
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    yeah - I think it indicated a troubling u-turn

    the thing is they briefed about a careful, exacting process - so far so good

    but then they heavily trailed Arteta

    but then didn't appoint him

    smacks of concerning process fail to me

    If Emery had done a great presso, then why were they trailing Arteta in advance?

    The whole point to trail Arteta was to prep the audience for his announcement, so the fact that he wasn't then appointed tends to hint that he must have been very close to the job but something went pear shaped in the final day or so

    there was no advance media on Emery
     
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  22. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    That was what Ivan said in the presser today. They had 8 candidates which they interviewed personally. All were interested until the club made their decision. Interviews went from 4/25 to 5/10. IRS parented Emery to the board on 5/18. Ivan and Emery flew to Atlanta to meet Kroenke on 21st.

    What did they do to arteta? I don’t think he ever was as close as been reported. Go read ornstein article on 5/18. He merely said that arteta was the front runner. Maybe that’s what he heard, but Ivan said that “those that know don’t tell, and those that tell don’t know.”

    Have you ever hired anyone? It’s a process. Things shift from one candidate to another as you do your diligence—talk to references, background, follow up interviews, etc. if it’s done by committee there is usually quite a bit of deliberation.

    I don’t buy this narrative that arteta was always the guy and the club was just rolling in others like PV and TH to seem like they were doing their diligence.

    Ivan hired Sven and Raul to help him when AW left. You honestly think that those three flip-flopped last minute and threw arteta out the window?

    ITKs just creating a narrative to make it seem like they actually presented a fact.
     
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  23. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All this talk about the hiring "process" leads me to conclude that Arsenal management had no real plans or ideas when they pushed Wenger out.

    Wenger only had 1 year left on his contract anyway, and we were led to believe it was his last one when he signed it.

    So Wenger's pending departure wasn't a surprise to anyone. What is surprising is how seemingly unprepared management was/is to hire his replacement.

    I'm hoping Emery works out. But I'm also highly annoyed at the failure to do any real succession planning before his hiring.
     
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  24. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would forgive all before PSG quite easily. While his teams were nice, they were nowhere near Real Madrid, Barcelona, or A. Madrid all those years. Even at their best, its completely reasonable to me that they couldn't win those type of games.
     
  25. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know why so many of you folks spend so many cycles thinking about what might've happened leading up to this decision. Maybe some day it will come out exactly how it happened, or maybe (more likely?) not.

    The main thing is that the process happened and Emery rose to the top. Instead of divining clues of mismanagement, why don't we just accept that the decision's been made and now spend our mental time & energy on Unai Emery as he goes forward as head coach?

    What are we only 1 week into the post-Wenger era? I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a lot of real clues as to how the new management is going to work in this new era. Instead of wanting to pounce on perceived shortcomings, why don't we just have a little patience, let it play out, and support the club while they develop this new way of working.
     

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