2018 MLS Week 8 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The assignments for Week 8 of the 2018 Major League Soccer season:

    04/20/18

    Sporting Kansas City v Vancouver Whitecaps
    Children’s Mercy Park (9PM ET)
    REF: KEVIN STOTT
    AR1: TBD
    AR2: CAMERON BLANCHARD
    4TH: NIMA SAGHAFI
    VAR: EDVIN JURISEVIC

    04/21/18

    Montreal Impact v Los Angeles FC
    Stade Saputo (1PM ET)
    REF: ALLEN CHAPMAN
    AR1: ANDREW BIGELOW
    AR2: OSCAR MITCHELL-CARVALHO
    4TH: FOTIS BAZAKOS
    VAR: GEOFF GAMBLE

    Houston Dynamo v Toronto FC
    BBVA Compass Stadium (3PM ET)
    REF: DREW FISCHER
    AR1: JEFFREY GREESON
    AR2: MATTHEW NELSON
    4TH: DAVE GANTAR
    VAR: YOUNES MARRAKCHI

    New York Red Bulls v Chicago Fire
    Red Bull Arena (3:30PM ET)
    REF: ROBERT SIBIGA
    AR1: COREY PARKER
    AR2: TJ ZABLOCKI
    4TH: JOSE CARLOS RIVERO
    VAR: JORGE GONZALEZ

    Columbus Crew v New England Revolution
    MAPFRE Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: CHRISTOPHER PENSO
    AR1: JEFF HOSKING
    AR2: JEREMY KIESO
    4TH: MARCOS DEOLIVEIRA
    VAR: SILVIU PETRESCU

    Orlando City v San Jose Earthquakes
    Orlando City Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: ISMAIL ELFATH
    AR1: KEVIN KLINGER
    AR2: FELISHA MARISCAL
    4TH: RUBIEL VAZQUEZ
    VAR: CHRISTINA UNKEL

    FC Dallas v Philadelphia Union
    Toyota Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: ALAN KELLY
    AR1: CJ MORGANTE
    AR2: JEREMY HANSON
    4TH: ALEJANDRO MARISCAL
    VAR: LUIS GUARDIA

    Real Salt Lake v Colorado Rapids
    Rio Tinto Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: JOSEPH DICKERSON
    AR1: IAN ANDERSON
    AR2: JONATHAN JOHNSON
    4TH: CHICO GRAJEDA
    VAR: RICARDO SALAZAR

    LA Galaxy v Atlanta United
    StubHub Center (10:30PM ET)
    REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO
    AR1: EDUARDO MARISCAL
    AR2: ADAM GARNER
    4TH: DANIEL RADFORD
    VAR: ALEX CHILOWICZ

    04/22/18

    Seattle Sounders v Minnesota United
    CenturyLink Field (4PM ET)
    REF: ARMANDO VILLARREAL
    AR1: KYLE ATKINS
    AR2: APOLINAR MARISCAL
    4TH: SORIN STOICA
    VAR: CALEB MENDEZ

    Portland Timbers v New York City FC
    Providence Park (6PM ET)
    REF: TED UNKEL
    AR1: ADAM WIENCKOWSKI
    AR2: MICHAEL KAMPMEINERT
    4TH: NIMA SAGHAFI
    VAR: KEVIN TERRY JR.
     
  2. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Good to see Alan Kelly back.
     
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully @MassachusettsRef or someone can fill in the blank on that first game.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it’s Logan Brown.
     
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  5. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Joe Dickerson after the nice little write-up has his 2nd match in MLS. I'd be interested what that means for other guys in the upper echelons of the development group.
     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regular season match counts for week 8 referees and assistant referees:

    SKC vs VAN: K Stott - 315th [L Brown - 39th, C Blanchard - 45th]

    MTL vs LAF: A Chapman - 114th g [A Bigelow - 52nd, O Mitchell-Carvalho - 56th]
    HOU vs TOR: D Fischer - 85th [J Greeson - 38th, M Nelson - 93rd]
    NYR vs CHI: R Sibiga - 53rd [C Parker - 141st, T Zablocki - 6th]
    CLB vs NE: C Penso - 128th [J Hosking - 124th, J Kieso - 4th]
    ORL vs SJ: I Elfath - 109th [K Klinger - 81st, F Mariscal - 42nd]
    DAL vs PHI: A Kelly - 86th [C Morgante - 167th, J Hanson - 102nd]
    RSL vs COL: J Dickerson - 2nd [I Anderson - 186th, Jo Johnson - 71st]
    LAG vs ATL: B Toledo - 250th [E Mariscal - 58th, A Garner - 143rd]

    SEA vs MIN: A Villarreal - 95th [K Atkins - 55th, Ap Mariscal - 47th]
    POR vs NYC: T Unkel - 59th [A Wienckowski - 194th, M Kampmeinert - 100th]
     
  7. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    As noted, Stott and Kelly return to action this week.

    Several weeks back, @MassachusettsRef said

    “Several other referees either failed a re-take or have not yet attempted a re-take. So a couple familiar on-field names are going to remain in the VAR role for the foreseeable future.”

    We have five Referees who exit Week 8 with no CRs: Gonzalez, Guzman, Jurisevic, Petrescu, Salazar. Three of them (Guzman, Petrescu, Salazar) had what looked like full loads last season. All five have been VARs once or twice in the last two weeks.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. And one of those five is now clear and will return shortly. One is done for the year. The other three, to my knowledge, are still dealing with injuries that likely prevent passage of the fitness test.

    And before anyone asks, I'm only being opaque about the actual names because assignments shouldn't be shared publicly before they are released and naming who has passed and who hasn't comes too close to that line.
     
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  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Real Salt Lake v Colorado Rapids
    Rio Tinto Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: JOSEPH DICKERSON
    AR1: IAN ANDERSON
    AR2: JONATHAN JOHNSON
    4TH: CHICO GRAJEDA
    VAR: RICARDO SALAZAR


    Salazar has been replaced by Tim Ford at VAR for this match.
     
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vancouver down to 9 after VAR looks at a mass confrontation.
     
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  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, this is perfectly done per the protocols. I wouldn’t expect less from Stott.

    The only questions to ask here are philosophical.
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The lesson to learn is in the world of VAR, keep your ****ing hands down.

    The Vancouver player committed a reckless tackle and stood over the opponent. Petty? Sure. He got the yellow he deserved. Hopefully in five years when VAR is just apart of the game for everyone at this level, players will be less stupid in those situations.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one of the arguments in favor of VAR. The guarantee that all VC will be caught should serve, eventually, as an effective deterrent. That’s a plausible argument but it will require two things.

    First, a consistent and rigid application (and to be fair we are getting that so far in MLS).

    Second, logic will have to trump passion for players. It will be an interesting experiment. I honestly have no idea if we will have more or fewer VC red cards in 5 years. Could go either way.
     
  14. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I've watched the sequence twice now, and I'm certain I saw two yellows shown prior to the video review, then 2 reds and a yellow shown after review. The box score currently shows two yellows and two reds.

    That means either they missed a yellow, or someone was shown a yellow that was changed to red after review. Anyone have a clue?
     
  15. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    I believe they switched one of the yellows to a red
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe Reyna had a yellow changed to a red.

    That said, I realize now that Stott technically might have done something wrong. When the color of a card is changed, the referee is supposed to make a demonstrative signal indicating the initial card is wiped off. Meaning the referee should take the yellow out, make a “wave off” sign, then show the red. So, technically speaking, Stott could have been keeping Reyna’s yellow and then giving him red for a different act that he saw on video. I think it’s much, much more likely that Stott has had less experience on-field than off-field with VAR (plus he occasionally has a disdain for the formality of signals) and simply forgot to make the “wave off” sign. But it’s theoretically possible that Reyna got tagged with a yellow and a red. And that’s one of the reasons why the signals related to VR are critical.
     
  17. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reyna was my guess, as well. Since Stott tends to bird dog when he gives cards as opposed to pulling the player aside, it can be difficult to properly attribute depending on the camera angle. In this case I think we just saw Stott on camera so there was no way to tell.
     
  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure if anyone is watching Salt Lake-Colorado but I'd like to get some clarification on the red card Tim Howard just took. I'm assuming the call was intentional handling outside the box because Howard's left arm was away from the body? Which on its own would be a yellow but since he was also the last man it makes it red for DOGSO?

    I believe it was the right call, there are just a lot of Rapids fans asking for clarification and I want to explain it correctly to them.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is pretty straightforward. A goalkeeper who handles a shot at goal while outside his penalty area is almost always going to get sent off (a rare exception might be if two ndefenders were behind him and capable of stopping said shot). It’s DOGSO. This is an expected call all around the world for like the last 40 years. People are honestly complaining about this? Sometimes I forget how blind partisanship can be, I guess.
     
  20. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not complaining, more not understanding why it was a red (DOGSO) and not a yellow for handling. Well, some true partisans are complaining but most agree when its explained.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A goalkeeper handling a shot 19 or 20 yards out is pretty much like a defender handling the ball on the goal line. That’s not an exact comparison and not something you’ll find in the Laws. But in practice it’s pretty close to reality. Both are “oh yeah, that’s a red” moments for referees.
     
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  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I looked at it and immediately said red but when I went to explain it I realized I wasn't 100% sure of the combination of rules that made it an obvious red.
     
  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Nah. Only about 30. ;)
     
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  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with all of the above. The only real debate is whether the ball was deliberately handled, and if you slow it down, the ball does change trajectory off the arm just before hitting the chest. In other words, Howard cradled the ball with his left arm as he went for the block. No question for me that it's deliberate.
     
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  25. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    JasonMa repped this.

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