I can officially stop paying attention to you. The fact that you actually believe this shows you have zero idea how anything works.
If you were serious about this you'd be able to offer something of substance instead of constantly avoiding the question with middle school stuff like this: Setting aside that there is a real scientific explanation for why water and other liquids are wet, the point remains I've invited you to explain your line of reasoning and multiple times you've dodged. Either you can't do it or you simply don't care, in which case you really don't want us guys "to understand," you simply want things your way. C'est la vie.
Well, let’s starts with this, where are you from and what levels of soccer have you played? What is the American experience that you have? The reason why I ask this is because I have actually played in a country with pro rel, I am a former Academy player, played high school and college soccer here in the states, in fact I’m a huge fan of college football (American) and the NFL. I have real life experiences with these issues not just as a fan but also as a player and a coach, something that some of you don’t. Not trying to disrespect you, just trying to know more about your background to know where your logic comes from, I actually played high school soccer with a kid that made it to the nfl, I also coached former D1 college punters and kickers, and soccer players, I was also a college soccer assistant coach, I have been around the American sports landscape for a while, not just soccer.
Well with all that in mind, you should be able to give pretty comprehensive responses to these questions then. Being involved in it doesn't necessarily mean you fully understand all the nuances. Saying "I've done this, this and this... what have you done?", doesn't support your assertion. If I said that I'd overseen the implementation of a dozen different youth systems, to great success, would you immediately accept my arguments over yours? I haven't, by the way, but that shouldn't be your basis for appreciating my argument anyway.
There are plenty of 'other' wealthy, industrialised nations that haven't won a world cup, I am not saying it 'wouldn't' of happened, I am just saying you also don't know that it 'would' have happened either, its difficult to pinpoint exactly why a handful of countries have been successful while a vast majority haven't, I think there are only 7 or 8 countries that have EVER won a World Cup, being a 'big' country might help but it doesn't seem to be the ultimate when it comes to success or else Russia would have won a World Cup at some point.
I think it's a stretch to suggest the USMNT issues are linked to many of its players playing in a league that doesn't feature pro rel. To me, MLS has made the rest of CONCACAF better. IIRC correctly, both Panama and Costa Rica have five or six MLS players on their respective national team rosters.
Fine, I'll play along. Played from age 4-27. Didnt make ODP but I was involved in youth premier league (or whatever they called it then) in Georgia for ages 10-15 in north metro Atlanta. I went to Georgia Tech which only had club ball and played a season there before dropping that to play in the sponsored Atlanta District League until I got engaged and moved. I coached recreation boys ball for 5 years. Held a C license while also reffing and help administer the program at the East Cobb YMCA. I have an old NASL Atlanta Chiefs banner in my attic somewhere from games as a kid, had season tickets to the Atlanta Attack, Silverbacks and now have them with Atlanta United. I'm partial to the 4-4-2, loved watching Lothar Matthaus, never truly developed my left foot, and was cut after the first day of open MLS tryouts in Orlando back in '95. (Yeah, I didn't have a prayer but it was helluva lot of fun!) So there's my background as you requested. Now enlighten me how P/R is absolutely necessary to the development of talent.
I am going to break this into a different post because from my previous post about the USMNT because I continue to find it odd that proponents seldom make the direct case for what I think is the greatest benefit of pro/rel -- concentrating the strongest teams in a single league. Too often, the discussion focuses on the dreams of the minnows, but to me the system is really designed to place the best of the best in a single league and push the weaker clubs into another level, thereby upgrading the standard of play. Now, other factors come into play too. The number of teams in any league is often a fixture of the schedule the league adopts -- if every team needs to play at least 30 games a year and the league adopts the classic home/away schedule, that league is going to need at least 16 clubs. Many smaller countries can't field 16 good clubs IMO, pro/rel or no pro/rel, because they don't have sufficient resources and population to support that many, but the United States certainly could. So, I ask again, would a 16 team MLS have a higher quality of play than a 32 team MLS? I think it likely would, especially if they were allowed a much higher salary cap.
Not really, getting to know people is a good way to start a good informative debate. I gave people an example about the Browns and an mls team, they said something about the Cavs when they know basketball and American football isn’t at the same time, you can tell how serious they are by saying things like this, you in the other hand have actually spent time to explain things, you have legit questions as well, you have earned respect. Other sports cannot be compared to soccer because not other sport is bigger, countries don’t invest as much in other sports.
Costa Rica has a player in Real Madrid... their mls players have very little to do with what they accomplish.
You keep saying “absolutely necessary to develop players” and this is why I don’t take some of you serious, developing more players is only a fraction of the positive things that come with PR.
By the way if it wasn’t because of injuries I would have made it pro somewhere, before college I had trials with the California Seahorses and the other team from San Fernando Valley in California but they didn’t offer me enough money to stay. So is not like I just come here to waste my time and talk nonsense, I do have legit experiences.
There isn't a salary cap. Each team can spend Basic salary budget + TAM (tradeable) + DP salaries And you'll notice that most MLS teams (except NYC and TFC) only spend 15-20% of revenue on salaries compared to 50-70% in the big Euro leagues. So even if they were given more money to spend, there's no guarantee they would spend it.
Let's not fight this dumb fight again -- the definition of a "soft" salary cap is a league imposed limit on salaries with several exceptions that allow a team to exceed that limit. That's exactly what MLS has and has always had, the league just keeps adding more exceptions.
In all honesty, I don’t think the question should be “why we have to do PR?” The question should be; When can we start? As some of you have said, it wouldn’t make sense financially right now, I doubt all MLS teams are making a lot of profit but let’s assume that you guys are right and is not possible at the moment, when would it be possible then? I’m thinking MLS1, MLS2 and 3 USL leagues. Each MLS league having 20 teams... something like that
It won't be considered until you can guarantee that relegated teams can be financially successful i.e. not in the near future.
The best way to develop the MNT is for the top players to play in the top leagues, as happens in Europe. Look at the current 24 man squads for some of the group winners in UEFA World Cup qualifying. France - 8 domestic players Portugal - 5 domestic players Serbia - 2 domestic players Poland - 8 domestic players Belgium - 3 domestic players Iceland - 1 domestic player In terms of production, since 2016 (inclusive), over 100 HGPs have signed professional terms with MLS clubs compared to a handful in 2015.
Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Currently the US only has Two Professional Divisions (MLS (D1) & USL (D2)). The lower divisions need to be developed more. Specifically a 3rd division needs to be established. Then possibly a 4th division as well. That's going to take time. Also, what could/should be done with the Amateur Leagues (PDL, NPSL, etc.)? IMO, the the size of the US makes implementing Pro/Rel an interesting puzzle to figure out. Regional leagues would likely be the best way to go, in order to reduce travel expenses. That makes promoting to and relegating from the higher divisions a little trickier. Once we get the Divisions 1-3, do we promote/relegate teams from east to east and west to west (Divisions/Conferences)? How are parachute payments factored in? Where does that money come from? Salary Budgets would be a thing IMO, as that would help teams be viable long term and prevent them from spending into bankruptcy. When are the season's played? How many games? This will obviously have a huge impact on the USOC as well. What are the criteria for promotion into the next league (outside of winning)? For me, this is going to take at least 2 decades, if not more to implement. And that's IF all parties can get together and actually agree upon how to do things....and that's a HUGE IF. The above is also only a few questions, as there are a lot more that need to be answered/addressed.
I’m thinking in 5 years, we should have a legit answer of how we are going to do it, in 10 years it will be nice to finally have PR, that would be the dream of some of us soccer nuts.