2018 MLS Week 3 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. refinDC

    refinDC Member

    Aug 7, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very disappointing from a referee perspective. I liked to see all of those

    From a fan perspective, would at least think you'd want send offs and VAR easily available to see what you may have missed in the stadium, but that could be an argument for the cautions too.
     
  2. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    MLS Live also used to have little icons if you went back to watch a match that showed when goals, yellows and reds occurred so you could skip right to them, but those are gone now too
     
    refinDC repped this.
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To answer my previous question, it's still violent conduct. It's clear from the other angles that Dempsey cocks the elbow and drives it towards the opponent. What's not clear is just how much contact he actually made, but that's irrelevant unless you feel the need to consider a red for VC and a yellow for simulation.

    As for Waston.... I'm still not convinced. There are places where I'd expect red, but not in MLS, especially having seen the fan-recorded angle from the stands behind that goal line (featured on the new Instant Replay).
     
  4. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #54 RefIADad, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    As you explain it like that, it's a lot like a center trusting the ARs to properly judge offside. The CR doesn't have to be in line with the 2LD or the ball. The CR has assistants giving him/her advice, and that advice is considered when making a final decision.

    My two contentions with VAR have always been 1) reviews take too long and 2) the "clear and obvious" standard appears to be lowered to the point where there is re-officiating going on. I definitely want to see events like the Henry goal vs. Ireland disallowed and the Lampard no-goal against Germany in South Africa ruled as a good goal. I also want to see penalties that are obvious dives reversed and violent conduct behind the referee's back sanctioned with a send-off. I don't really care (as a neutral observer, of course) if a 50/50, bang-bang play is overturned. Get the big calls that are clearly called wrong overturned via VAR in a manner that doesn't disrupt the flow of the game too much. If that happens, I will be happy as a fan of the game.

    Unkel's reversal of his original call for a direct free kick to a PK was a near-perfect application of VAR. I could imagine the conversation. Drew Fischer (VAR): "Hey, Ted. That hold carried into the penalty area. There's no doubt in my mind that's a penalty kick." Unkel: "You 100% sure?" Fischer: "Absolutely." Unkel: "OK, thanks. I'll point to the spot." From Unkel's angle, it would be tough to truly determine whether the foul was inside of the area. The AR is (correctly) more focused on the set-play offside rulings, which are always tough with so many bodies and the determination of who is playing the ball. VAR helped get a key early-match call right. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.
     
    YoungRef87 and JasonMa repped this.
  5. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    #55 asoc, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    If I was just watching this video only, I am failing to see any contact to the groin area (player looks like he is holding his hand/wrist and not even his groin anyways). And it looks like Dempsey is just trying to fight through someone with their arms and hands all over him.

    Video quality isn't the greatest though.

    At what point is holding allowed vs a player knocking their arms/hands away considered an attempt to strike and a red card? What level of force is allowed to fight through a hold?

    I am pretty confident the VAR thought it was a strike to the groin. As likely everyone else did at first, including me.
     
  6. Midwest Ref

    Midwest Ref Member

    Jul 25, 2002
    I wonder why #pasthistory
     
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  7. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I think Dempsy has crossed the line. The first few years he got away with stuff, and then it seems after his Radford incident (and lack of punishment) he just doubled down on his behavior. Now I think your typical PRO ref is not going to give him a fraction of a doubt anymore.
     
  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vancouver have successfully appealed Kendall Waston's red card.
     
  9. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Not surprised. That red card was kind of a head-scratcher (at least from what I saw).
     
  10. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So is this the first red card given by VAR that is overturned?

    I also think that some of the league's thinking of this is tainted by the time of game the card was given. You may laugh and think this isn't plausible, but I can seriously imagine the red card review panel saying, "he already basically sat his game, why make him sit another?"

    And if this doesn't persuade the faithful that VAR is officially broken and not getting better, I don't know what will.

    Finally--Elfath seems to struggle with VAR more than others. He had that clear foul last season in the box that he waved off, reviewed it, then stuck with his no call. He also is the one who reviewed a misconduct last season that was in the box, then improperly placed the restart (as if he didn't even review the location of the foul at all). Now this--a VAR red card pissed on by the league. If I were him I'd follow Stott's example...from now on, just don't ever go to the monitor.
     
  11. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's the second one to be successfully appealed. One of New England's last year was the first.

    Not a good look for the system overall, regardless.
     

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