World Football Historic Center (Dearman Blogspot)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #901 Dearman, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    Match Summary.png

    1978 World Cup Summary

    Austria : Bruno Pezzey is an advanced libero who often participates in midfield area to support as a creative force. However, his positional defense is his weak point. He often places himself behind opponent’s attacker in penalty area when opponent crosses the ball from the side of the field, allowing opponent to reach the crossed ball before him and get chance in assisting or scoring. In a scene, he has problem in witty of interception. After he battles in aerial ball, the ball falls nearby between him and a Spanish attacker but he fails to follow. Prohaska is mainly identified as a great team work player with great vision to pass. Hans Krankl is better than what I expected when he shows some good skill in conducting the ball. In match against West Germany, he shows spectacular volleying in winning goal.

    France : Marius Tresor is physically excellent but his positional sense is not impressive. Several times, he positions himself too far from the opponent when France was being assaulted. Maxime Bossis’ technique is admired. His rhythm in interception is disappointed according to 3 -4 scenes captured.

    Argentina : Ubaldo Fillol is one of the best keepers ever in a World cup single tournament, is always superb in his agile reflexes save as one of the most skillful ever, saving Argentina from conceding many goals. Daniel Passarella is a true commander with complete set of playing skill and mental qualification. In a scene, he lost balance when he is following the opponent and fall to the ground but he incredibly gets up and follow to win the ball with himself. He shows a quick dribbling skill and his incredible positional sense in his offensive-mind allow him to dominate in aerial shot. Oswaldo Ardiles doesn’t play well enough in group stage. He concedes the ball by his passing under easy situation but then he was one of a key players in group stage. He has a great idea of coordination through his agile movement. Mario Kempes is a complete striker, is dominant in physique. He is tall with high strength and great speed and technique, being dangerous in every moment.

    Italy : This team has a high potential enough to win the tournament but players are declined in performance in the last match due to fatigue body condition. All started players but Bellucci are named in my top 50 most skillful players ever by position. Dino Zoff is always reliable. He makes almost 100 % correct decision in situation management. However, his conceding goal from Arie Haan’s ling shot is a flaw when he should have enough time to reach the ball. Scirea places himself very deep position ensuring preventing opponent’s obvious chance. He is a creative defender from the deep position not often in moving forward but when he moves, he is amazingly great and agile in dribbling. Gentile plays as an important role in high-work-rate approach, often get chance to pass the ball to forward area but his technique and vision is very limited. Cabrini is a great technical and tactical player with outstanding ball control and tackling skill. Benetti is a box-to-box midfielder while Tardelli establishes himself as destroyer. Causio is remarkable in dribbling and vision to pass, is one if the main cogs of the team. Bettega is rather extravagant in chance consumption. Finally, Paolo Rossi is stumble in his versatile and elegant style of playing. He often performs as a side-forward in both wings with his agile movement and effective crossing. Thus, Rossi is effective in both forward and top striker role. He is anyway lack of competitive strength and stamina.

    Netherlands : It is much more often to see Ruud Krol’s tackling in a central defender position. In 1978 tournament, he is much less successful in % tackle won than the 1974 tournament. He is seen to have a rough tackle several times. Rensenbrink become the leader of Holland’s offense. He shot clash the pillar in the last minutes as one of the most regrettable moments ever in football as it failed turns the Dutch football history narrowly.

    Peru : Cesar Cueto shows an incredible quickness in his dribbling footage and movement but he made ineffective pass several times and his goalscoring skill is relatively weak. Chumpitaz sustains his great defensive performance. His passing is really not favored at this tournament.

    Brazil : Zico is primarily a reserved player. He did the impressive individual performance but his limited teamwork ability prevented him from meeting the great chances. Dirceu is the best player in this team with magnificent long shot ability. Edinho is worth to watch. He is seen to play as left-back or center-back equally and shows great technical skill combined with his defensive quality. Roberto Dinamite is a disappointing striker. He mostly shoots miss target in a far range.

    West Germany : Berti Vogts finally make a mistake of own goal in the situation that he could do better. Now it is interesting for me to collect own goal record of legendary defender. Manfred Kaltz’s main position is sweeper but he occasionally switches to Right-Back where he shows his great pace and good step of dribbling.

    In conclusion, Kempes is deserved the golden ball, Fillol came second, Paolo Rossi is the third place. 4th is Passarella and I select Dirceu as 5th best player of the tournament.
     
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  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What did you think of Bertoni? Most memorably to me, in the first half of the final he torched the left-side of the Netherlands.

    Also did you get any impressions for Rummenigge, Cubillas and Deyna?
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Bertoni played effectively as a great team work player but his individual skill is nothing remarkable. Anyway, I agree he played at his best in the first half of final.

    Probably I forgot to mention Rummenigge, Cubillas and Deyna.
    Rummenigge'a role is very similar to Cristiano Ronaldo and his best skill is seen to be dribbling. Deyna played as advanced midfielder in this tournament different to the 1974 that he is more playmaker. Deyna in 1978 is not even inferior to his 1974 performance for me. Cubillas sustained his own standard but not very outstanding.
     
  4. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Match Summary.png

    Late 1970s to early 1980s

    In the South American Derby in 1979 Copa America, Ricardo Bochini is a key player in Argentina midfield. His best skill is seen to be dribbling with considerable technique. His long passing is also quite accurate but he also has some problems in his vision, seen by two mistakes short-pass. Socrates is awesome in his aerial scoring. Aside from his advantageous tall figure, he is great in heading with the ball. He possesses a high sense of team work, contributing flows of passing with coincident rhythm. Junior is satisfied in both offense and defense with positional awareness.

    In the 1980 European Cup Final. Peter Shilton is prudent and extremely reliable. His reading the game is one of the best ever. He makes important saves 3 times with great reflexes althpugh his jumping is rather limited. Keegan plays as attacking midfielder. Although he is a high team work player, he is limited in playmaking skill and several times too hurry in going forward lead to losing the ball. He also has ability to assist in any acrobatic style such as heading, bicycle kicking, etc. Manfred Kaltz is outstanding in his positioning and passing.

    In 1980 Cup Winners Cup, it is the only match I will have watched Liam Brady and Patt Jennings. Brady is a great organizer and long passer. Jennings has a few occasion to save the ball. The most scenes he is very good in goal kicking.


    Euro 80

    Italy : Dino Zoff’s most favorable skill is his reading the game and handling. It is rare to see his mistake in catching the ball. Scirea is an advanced sweeper in this tournament. His technique and agility supports him to support midfield area conveniently. Moreover, Scirea possesses a great vision to pass from the backline to advanced area. However, he mistakes in touching the ball and lose free-kick in front of penalty area against England. Moreover, he incredibly misses scoring in a very short distance. Roberto Bettega is the target man in the 1978 World Cup but he plays in deeper role in the 1980 Euro and contributes some chances to his teammates.

    Belgium : Jean Marie-Pfaff is really remarkable in opening the ball when his kicking is powerful and go far to nearby penalty area of opponent. Eric Gerets is very strong and tough in defensive task. He is intelligent in take positional advantage. Van Moer makes a poor vision in match against Italy when he pass back to Marie-Pfaff recklessly and almost concede a goal. However, he plays very well in the final match as a box-to-box midfielder. Cuelemans is diligent, great physical player and high skill of team work.


    Germany : Bernd Schuster in match against Holland is really complete. 100 % of his approach is effective in all aspects of performance. He is an all-round midfielder who shows high technique by tilting the ball getting pass opponent. Schuster several times switches himself to right-wing area where he always contributes accurate crossing. He also makes powerful and on-target shot. Although Allofs scores hat-trick in this match, Schuster is still chosen as man of the match by me. His performance is slightly dropped in the final match. Rummenigge is physically complete and his technical ability is in satisfactory level although several times he has no idea to get pass defenders aside from his physical advantage. Briegel is better than Kaltz physically when Kaltz is also better in team work ability. Both are very great in technique and tackling skill.

    In the 1981 Mundialito or mini world cup, Maradona takes the most important role of the team. His dribbling in that time is almost complete but shortage of great balance and stamina prevent him from going farther in several scenes. Maradona’s vision and passing is still in-developing process. Passarella in this tournament has improved his passing to be much more accurate.

    In 1981 European Cup final, the match really not achieve high quality. Liverpool played below their own standard compared with the late 1970s team. Alan Hansen is very limited in vision to pass which is often incomplete. Souness has a few contribution of the team and Dalglish is always good teamwork player with smooth style of play. The most impressive player in the match is Jose Camacho. Although he is known as left-back, he played as a right-wing-back with amazing ball controlling and crossing ability. His role is even similar to side-midfielder.

    There is no movement in performance ranking. The next set is the 1982 World Cup.
     
  5. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Impressive rating for Schuster, and I wonder what kind of dimension he would attain had he not quit the Germany NT.
     
  6. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    1982 WC Summary.png


    1982 World Cup Summary

    Brazil : Junior is unofficially named in the 1982 best XI that is overrated. He doesn’t play well particularly in the second group stage. His teamwork ability is really under expectation. Leandro is impressive in his technique. Not likes many other Brazilian side-backs who is weak in defense, he performs defensive task satisfactorily. The three key players Falcao-Socrates-Zico aligns in the central midfield is controversial. Falcao is known as the best performer as a main creator from deep midfield area. Socrates is a true stylish playmaker as well as a great support role to score. Thus, Zico essentially act likes support striker and always try to find opportunity to score but not prolific finally. Aside from Toninho biggest mistake in match against Italy, he played disappointingly in overall tournament.

    France : As I see many matches of Bossis, he is not good enough as one of 50 most skilfull side-backs ever. Rare scene to see his above-average performance. Tresor is not consistent enough in his performance through the tournament and he is not better than Desailly at all. Amoros is a true star. In match against West Germany, he almost score the winning goal just before ending of 90 minutes but the ball clash the bar. He is technically agile with great offensive-mind running from defensive to offensive area from times and his crossing is mostly accurate. “The French Trio” Tigana-Giresse-Platini is stumble to watch as an incredible creative force. Individually, Tigana concedes the ball too easy in overall and make no good decision in last minute try to shoot in impossible distance for him. Giresse is very consistent and always reliable as an organizer. Platini does not play well in a group stage when his passing is goalless twice times. He finally fulfill his potential in semi-final against West Germany almost perfect in game creation and shows classy technical skill. However, he shot out-off-target 3 times in expectable distance.


    Austria : Pezzey and Prohaska are noticed to play better significantly than the 1978 tournament. Pezzey become more reliable in defensive task. Prohaska establish himself in deeper area similar to defensive midfielder role.


    Italy : Dino Zoff is another one who is named in world cup all stars team unofficially but it is highly questionable if he is deserved. He is very reliable but too slow and I don’t see any spectacular save in related matches. Cabrini is deserved to be the left-back of the tournament as he is very complete in his task in both defense and offense. Gentile is the most famous defender in Italian team. He marks Maradona and Zico effectively but most of them are tactically fouls and he could be fortunate enough when the referees preferred to save yellow cards in the pocket. I don’t give his credit as much as Scirea who is highly underrated. Tardelli plays his best performance in this tournament, rare mistake to be detected. Conti’s agile dribble always allows him to get through the opponents and is the main key player in Italian midfield area indispensably. Paolo Rossi in match against Brazil scores hat-trick but he mistakes in 1-1 chance to score. In this tournament, Rossi develops himself to be expert in positioning in penalty area while he remain operates from deep-lying forward in most times.

    Germany : Schumaccher is superb in position and when combined with his large body, he reached the ball without necessary high jump. Karl Heinz Forster is overall reliable but one scene saw his weak in strength when he lost in the clash although it is him to run straight forward to take jostle. Brigel dominates in his powerful running with technical support but his crossing is always unexpectable. Pierre Littbarski is the second best German player in the tournament. He can be relied on his dribbling and accurate crossing. Klaush Fischer scores one of the most beautiful goals by overhead kick. Rummenigge for me is under expectation. He doesn’t participate with the game enough. In some related matches, he almost disappeared in the game. Anyway, when he has a chance with the ball, it is very effective and dangerous.

    USSR : Dasaev is reliable in all aspects. Apart from individual expertise, he is excellent in commanding the defenders. Bessonov is best known as a right-back but he is more midfielder in practical. The only remarkable skill of him is ball controlling. Demyanenko is a great crosser with high speed as a left-wing-back.

    Yugoslavia : Safet Susic as an advanced midfielder is conveniently within range of expectation. His technical first touch, vision, and movement all are naturally elegant to an eyes. Petrovic is stand behind him with very good playmaking and long-shot skill.

    Spain : Camacho is once again impressive. His role is anyway strange when he alternate between left-full-back and right-wing-back role during the game. Rafael Gordillo is under expectation. He is weak in defense while his offensive skill is satisfied in only dribbling ability but fail in vision and passing.

    England : Bryan Robson possesses a great balance when controlling the ball at the scene he still stand against surrounded opponent. He is superb ball interception. In many cases, his slide tackle is very fast and accurate from incredible position.

    Poland : As seen, the 1982 world cup is the best tournament of Lato not 1974. He develops his creative skill as a main contributor to the team from the right-wing. Boniek become a star of the tournament mainly from his hat-trick against Belgium in second group stage. Anyway, 2 of them are done rather convenient without any Belgian player nearby him. Unfortunately, he does not play in semi-final and for me, he is not great enough for top 5 players of the tournament.


    In conclusion, I name Paolo Rossi as the best player of the tournament. 2nd place to 5th place is Rummenigge, Falcao, Conti and Platini respectively.

    For all-stars team, I will conclude from the 1958 tournament to 1982 tournament soon.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A tournament of long-standing importance, it deserves the summary you have given it here.

    Did you get any impressions from a dysfunctional Argentina, in particular Ardiles, Passarella and obviously Maradona? Also, why do you rank Rummenigge high after evaluating his performance as disappointing?

    Should Dasaev be the goalkeeper of the tournament ahead of Zoff, I also felt his tournament reputation mostly lied from the dramatic save off Falcao's header. I had rated Tressor very high but now I must reconsider his standing. Amoros is superb in two WCs and must be regarded in the all-time rankings for right-back.

    For Rossi, his situation leading into the WC makes it in my opinion the greatest comeback story in football history. Scirea's performance is crucial, collectively this is catenaccio played at perfection.
     
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  8. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Zoff is overrated in comparison to Dasaev, but his accolades give the impression that he was better.

    Rummenigge was carrying an injury and the player that is dramatically overrated with the passing of time is Zico, whom only really stood out above the rest against semiprofessional New Zealand.

    Ardiles and Passarella were some of the few Argentinians that were considered at the time as living up to their reputation but it is not true, both were either indifferent or unreliable.
     
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  9. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    It is very hard to find second place properly. I rated Rummenigge in second place in a favor of his effectiveness against the chance apart from his scoring important goal in semi-finalist and his hat-trick against Chile in first group stage. Falcao played better than Rummenigge until second group stage that Brazil was eliminated, is very disadvantageous. Conti made 3 assists and score 1 goal. His passing accuracy is only 77 %. Platini made 2 goals and 2 assists with passing accuracy > 85 % but shooting accuracy is only 35.7 %. I think both are not great enough for top 3.

    I forgot to mention Rummenigge has been ranked down 2 places to 27th best ever. Although he is rated in second place, the rating is relatively low.

    I forgot to mention Argentine players. Argentina did not play well in second group stage. Maradona is anyway the best player in the team for me. He was always dangerous and get through number of opponents. I rarely see Ardiles' great tackle or interception. He is much more creative player. Passarella is fine for me.
     
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  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  11. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    OK now it is clear for me that KHR is overrated. I did not find his OPTA stats of the 1982 tournament and I evaluate based on my recent memory in 3 matches.
     
  12. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Unless you want to consider Zico, you may want to look at Socrates or Giresse for second best player. Falcao was very good against both Argentina and Italy, despite the loss to the Azurri. Antognoni could have been another candidate but was hurt in second half against Brazil and sat out the final to injury.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    Just for clarity, that is not what I want to imply based on this single tournament. He was not fit (not for every player that is equally known, whether they missed the preparation or not, but alas). He scored goals, albeit against a Chilean side that failed to win a single point and France that was effectively playing with 7-8 when he scored the 3-2 (it was 3-1). People can re-check the minute that preceded the goal.

    I've spelled out before how many of the top legends were not at their best at the World Cup, or even never played there.

    As said before I think KHR is commonly correctly rated (certainly how he was rated between ~ 1985 and 2005). He's among the five best players of the 1975 - 1985 era. Maybe as high as #3, maybe between 5 and 10. Commonly within the top five.
    Me thinks between 3 and 5 for that era.

    Also for him I'd like to know his very best games. That remains a bit of a mystery and mystique to me.

    Here he is much closer to peak fitness, in a top draw friendly, in his best year (1981). This is a better representation I think.


    This 1982 tournament is tricky besides Rossi, who is a certainty for the top five. Quite possibly #1, but definitely in the top five. The others are less clear.


    To conclude and finalize my comments, here the video

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5gqwxc
     
  14. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Untitled1.png

    In 1983 Derby match of Spain “Barcelona VS Real Madrid”, I intend to watch only Copa Del Rey Final but some misunderstanding let me to also watch La Liga in first 60 minutes and fortunately the match get me a new knowledge that Maradona’s aerial ability is in satisfactory level. Within 3 scenes, he jumps quite high and head the ball in great direction. Bernd Schuster in post-injury is seen to be obviously declined but the number of ineffective passes should not be impacted by injury since it is regarding the vision.

    1983 Copa America Final First leg is focused on Francescoli who is named as player of the tournament. He is one of the most elegant players ever but too slow and his dribbling is not agile enough to survive for interception twice. Apart from his great free-kick scoring, he contributes a smooth pass for most times. Additionally, he rarely participates with the ball in 1984 Artemeo Franchi that champion of Europe (France) versus Champion of Americas (Uruguay).

    Liverpool between 1984 and 1985 is admired for teamwork ability. Note that Kenny Dalglish is once again disappointing in 1985 Final, he made fail passes six times. For me, there is no way he is better than Kevin Keegan in overall skill when his technique is also not remarkable. Souness is a great long passer but rather slow and limited in scoring support. Ian Rush is a great teamwork player. In many scenes, he get himself down to coordinate the ball with his teammates.

    Juventus between 1983 and 1985 is entertaining to watch. Platini is a perfect organizer and his passing is always expectable. Boniek is an advanced midfielder who is limited in creativity and average is scoring. The failure of Boniek in 1983 European Cup Final is issued. He made six ineffective passes likes what Dalglish made in 1985. He is great in pace and technique. Tardelli is very consistent for his destroying and supporting in midfield.

    In 1984 Intercontinental Cup, Ricardo Bochini is amazing for his incredible agility in movement and dribbling. That is strange when he is much more agile than his performance in 1979 despite his high age in late career.

    Real Madrid in the 1986 UEFA Cup Final has many stars to be impressive. Hugo Sanchez is truly dangerous forward. He is fast, great in technical ball controlling and positional movement. Butragueno as a second forward is mostly running from attacking midfield area toward forward line. He is outstandingly quick and diligent. Michel in this match performs as a central midfield role with smooth style of play.

    The only full-match to have watch Hans Jurgen Dorner is the 1984 Euro Qualification Scotland VS East Germany. I stop watching at 60th minute when Dorner make a rough miss-tackle allowing Scotland player to cross and finally concede the goal. During the match, I don’t see any special skill of him. Although I watch only 60 minutes, Gordon Strachan is very likely to be Man of the Match.


    The 1984 UEFA Euro

    “Danish Dynamite” Denmark : Morten Olsen could be the best defender of the tournament if not restrict the round of competition qualified. He act as a advanced libero with dynamic running to midfield area, possesses very accurate and great weight of passing. His defensive ability is easily satisfied. Soren Lerby is very strong and reliable. His role in this tournament is more destroyer anyway. Michael Laudrup plays efficiently with high level of generosity but not spectacular scene. Preben Elkjaer is categorized as a left-side forward. He is an aggressive powerful runner and great in positional movement but his productive skill likes assisting and shooting is under standard. Also, his technique is seen to be unnatural and incomplete, being confirmed that he is not good enough for being named in top 50 most skillful forwards.

    Iberia nations : Antonio Maceda is the best Spanish player of the tournament. He scores important goal in semi-finalist and he contributes many good passes. Fernando Chalana is too limited. He misses many short passes, not fast enough although he makes one assist from his long-pass. He is famous for his dribbling but I don’t see any special dribbling from him through 3 full-matches. Anyway, Joao Pinto is impressive in both defensive and offensive as a great crosser.

    France : The Magic Square is confirmed to be the greatest midfield line ever. Tigana-Giresse-Platini is very compatible in coordination rhythm. Luis Fernandez is a leading destroyer likes an high power engine. Tigana is a great runner with considerable technique although some limitation of passing are detected. Giresse is highly appreciated in his vision and ball controlling that is always effective. Platini is a true leader with unbeatable character. His passing and movement is always purposive and creates a ton of change for himself and teammates to score. In the final, he get himself very deep in organizing the team . He is also seen to perform heading the ball satisfactorily.

    Important Update : I will transfer Boniek from offensive lateral to AM.
     
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  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Interesting to see you continuing with more and more games mate - well done!

    I would suggest you could look at Scotland vs Belgium from December 1982 (Euro 84 qualifying), to evaluate Dalglish's technique and general form on a 'good' day, in a period he was noted to be playing well in generally. Puck did observe that he did less notable things in the second half I know though, after he watched the full game. His 2 goals, especially the second, probably show his technique at it's finest. I'm not sure but when I return to making some player videos I might still consider doing a Dalglish/Ceulemans one for that game.

    I also wondered about making a John Robertson video for the Scotland vs East Germany game you watched 60 minutes of. He makes both goals, and apparently the East German manager called him Man of the Match - how did you think he did in the first 60 minutes overall?
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Just to clarify, it is the game in Belgium I refer to:

    I think I remember Dalglish playing well generally in this game vs Spain too:

    This is the video report suggesting Robertson as MOTM, according to the East German manager in that 1982 Euro 84 qualifier too:
     
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Nice trip down memory lane. Francescoli played with a natural beauty but was rather lazy, especially as he could be very fast in his off the ball movement. Boniek was renown for his continental performances so it's surprising that he disappoints here. Bochini wasn't that old in 84, still 30 years old and much capable of taking over a match.

    I would have expected the 20-year-old Laudrup to be flashy at the Euro, he was spectacular two years later at the World Cup. I also remember Elkjaer as explosive but not such a refined player.

    Platini's Euro is still considered as the best continental performance of all time. For midfield, do you rank the French magic square ahead of Spain's "tiki-taka"?
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I get to understand @Dearman his tendencies much better now (general knocking down of all the Dutch figures; Holland 1978 the only finalist without any player in the top 5).

    Not nice to say, but it is the truth. The revisionist and false equivalence machineries run full steam ahead.
     
  19. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I have watched all clips you provided. Those scenes ensure he has some impressive techniques. The majority of full-matches I watched him is a big international match that I give high importance for being within a range of high standard. Anyway I have a marginal rating for players who does not play well in important matches. For example, after I watched all full-matches, I will verify those skills by video clips also.

    For John Robertson, I did not much focus on him so it is possible that he is not underrated but Strachan creates many chances to Scotland.
     
  20. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Boniek is not either a consistent prolific in scoring or being a high creative player but the scenes he scores are attractive enough.
    Tiki-Taka is constructed by pure 3 midfielders. The level of coordination between them is more limited.
     
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  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, I understand. I suppose the less that is available in terms of full matches the harder it is to make a definitive judgement about peak level and also regularity of form/technique etc. Anyway, yes those Scotland matches are Euro and World Cup qualifiers, so 'big matches' in a general sense (against rivals for qualification), and they are available in full on Youtube, and I think Footballia too, but of course I know you must limit your viewing to some extent.

    Just trying to help out with suggestions for 'good matches' and/or 'good periods'. Not to say an average display in a big final has to be discarded in your full analysis, or even evaluation of skills etc.

    I think re: Dalglish the game at home against Borussia Monchengladbach in 1977/78 would be good for overall effectiveness and impact in a big game, just for extra info if it's useful to you.
     
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  22. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Well, I did not expect to exclude Dutch players from top 5 best player of the tournament as the team finished runner-up.
    Although it seems strange but let ensure it is not a fixed formula when the successful team with high teamwork ability doesn't need to have one of the best stars in the tournament. For example, Spain in Euro 1984 has no representative in team of the tournament as well.

    As written, Ruud Krol made rough tackles for times. For Rensenbrink, his crossing accuracy is only 10 % and dual won only 48 %. Rensenbrink scored 4 goals by penalty from total 5 goals. At least Kempes, Passarella and has better opta stats of attacking performance than him. In the excel file, there is no complete stats for Dirceu and Neeskens found. At least summary of stats by Gregoriak shows Dirceu has much better overall stats as a midfielder than that of Neeskens.
     
  23. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Does Boniek come down in your ranking?

    Spain started as many as six midfielders during their reign.

    Euro08
    Alonso - Xavi - Iniesta - Silva

    WC10
    Busquets - Alonso - Xavi - Iniesta

    Euro12
    Busquets - Alonso - Xavi - Iniesta - Fabregas - Silva
     
  24. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Boniek will be moved to AM list so there is no ranking movement issue.
    OK, I only thought about Barcelona. The Spanish Midfielders mainly operated in central midfield area limitedly. They might be better than the magic square in ball possession but they always need world-class forward in front of them for success. The magic square has no world-class forward but remain scoring many goals particularly Platini .
     
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  25. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    #925 benficafan3, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
    @Dearman, a big fan of your work but I do believe that there is some revision required with respect to CR7 as there is no possible universe/reality where a player who has scored 40 goals in the latter stages of the UCL (Quarter finals and on) relative to Messi's 16 (A player classified as two tiers above CR7), a player who leads the most difficult club competition of all time (UCL/EC) in goals and assists (and will never be surpassed in goals), etc. can be considered in the same class as Lothar Matthäus. I'm not even saying he should be rated higher than the #7 All-Time spot you give him (although he should be given his accomplishments) but to class him alongside Matthäus is simply incorrect, in a way that no possible argument can be otherwise logically made. I know you have methodology to define such spots but the above accomplishments alone show that Matthäus, for all his value, is in a world nowhere close to CR7 (or some of the other players in said bracket, like Platini & Puskas, IMO).

    Furthermore, I know you rate Beckenbauer highly, but I'd be extremely surprised if most people these days would pick Beckenbauer over CR7 if given such choice. As good of a defender he was, CR7's ability to influence games is surpassed or even matched by less than a handful of players (which you have listed). Attackers are more valuable than defenders as they score goals. And goals win games. Beckenbauer was great in stopping such attackers, but there is a reason why he's the only defender in the upper-echelon part of your list and it's because what attackers can do are, rightfully, more valuable in the game of football.

    Thank you for all that you do, it is really, really great work.

    upload_2018-3-24_1-58-47.png
     
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