2018 Preseason

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone with access care to post the preseason assignments thus far?

    CHI-MTL had JJ Bilinski in the middle, who I think was last seen on the AR track working USL games.
     
  2. me116

    me116 Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    A couple things:

    First, JJ is referee track -- He has had multiple assignments that, while not particularly high profile, were at a very high level, including a whistle on a full men's national team scrimmage.

    Second, he was also in charge of DCU vs. Philly Union a couple days ago. He's based in Florida, making him a convenient, competent choice for MLS preseason.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the key point. There are 5s and 6s (and a 7, in one case) from Florida and Arizona who get "MLS preseason" assignments in the middle, due mostly to convenience. There are some requirements on when PRO referees have to be used for MLS preseason matches, but suffice it to say that not all MLS preseason matches need to have PRO officials. So reading that Bilinski has a few games is not indicative of him being on the PRO radar.

    I think the purpose of the initial post was to identify referees who are on the PRO radar, are getting MLS preseason whistles in PRO or otherwise highly-rated crews, but have not yet had MLS regular season whistles. The following officials would qualify for that category far:

    Luis Guardia
    Guido Gonzales Jr.
    Matthew Franz
    Rosendo Mendoza
    Malik Badawi
    Ramy Touchan
    Greg Dopka
    Victor Rivas
     
  4. me116

    me116 Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    Yes and no. While there are plenty of people who fall into this category, Bilinski is not one of them. He was in tier 2 of the PRO Development Group last year, and there are rumors he is being added as a tier one (full PRO) fourth official this year.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5 MassachusettsRef, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    I don't think this is right at all, but maybe I'll be proven wrong.

    The last time I saw a published list, in summer 2017, the Elite Group (Tier 1) had seven names, the Elite Development Group (Tier 2) had six names, and the Premier Group (Tier 3) had 34 names. Bilinski was not a member of any of those groups. If that's changed and he's in one of the groups, great. But I would be shocked if he immediately vaulted into one of the top two tiers, particularly given a few of the names in Tier 3.

    Also, from a factual standpoint, "Tier 1" is not "full PRO fourth official." The Elite Group has a few people who worked as VARs, a couple people who did a few fourths, one referee (Dickerson) who got a trial whistle last year, and one guy (Badawi) who hasn't touched regular season MLS at all. The "full PRO fourth officials" are already part of the PRO roster; Tier 1 is the first step below that.
     
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  6. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I would add Michael Radchuk. He had an MLS team v. USL Pro team. As well as you mentioned below Dickerson, he had two MLS teams. But he has had his first MLS regular season debut...
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess JJ and Jonathan Bilinski aren't the same person, then?
     
  8. me116

    me116 Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    Yes, they are the same person.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair point. And he had the Anderson brothers on the line.

    To be more complete, Mark Allatin and Elvis Osmanovic are both in the PRO groups and both have had whistles.

    Also, the mid-January combine in Orlando had the following referees (all ARs were local)--you'll note there's some overlap with a few preseason referees:

    Christina Unkel
    Victor Rivas
    David Barrie
    Guido Gonzales Jr.
    Jorge Ramirez
    Yusri Rudolf

    Bilinski has had two whistles in February that involved at least one MLS team--one with local ARs and one with PRO ARs--so who knows? Entirely plausible he's in one of the PRO groups now but almost certain he hasn't jumped toward the front of the queue.
     
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  10. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems the only way to get on PRO’s radar is to do DA games and showcases. Is this true?
     
  11. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's where I got confused. Thought he was AR track because he ran some lines in the USL playoffs.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or to be the top FIFA referee in another country and willing to move to the USA.

    I kid (well, I don't--but that's beside the point). In the US, DA Playoffs are going to be an important place to be ID'd and tested. So going to Summer Showcase a few times and doing well matters. That seems like the most direct path. There are certainly some other more indirect paths, but they all involve a decent rise up the USSF ladder, which inherently now seems to require DA. You might get lucky getting noticed at Dallas or by doing some USSF-assigned USL matches and doing them well. Or maybe the right person is at the right place at the right time at a national amateur event. But to get to any of those three spots, you almost certainly have gone through a few DA showcases in the first place.

    So, to answer your question, yes. But the showcases are what matter for identification, not DA games back home (unless you have high-level USSF and/or PRO people in your immediate neighborhood, tracking and observing those games).
     
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  13. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    No. There are other ways but like MASS said you need to either a) go to a PRO ID event (which most now are invite only thru US Soccer) b) or have a PRO assessor in your backwoods that can vouch for you; and get pushed that way.

    Either way tho they are looking for DA showcases as checkmarks in a box to get into the development group.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #14 MassachusettsRef, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    Time for me to eat a little crow...

    I was just shown an updated list that got sent around to assessors recently. That list has 34 referees total (instead of the 47 total in the July 2017 list, which was then broken down into 7-6-34). All thirteen referees from the first two Tiers are still on this new list. Seventeen names have been dropped while four have been added. Bilinski is--no surprise after this discussion--one of those four names added.

    It's unclear if the three tiers have been scrapped. I can't imagine why they would be so quickly. My gut says this is a consolidated list sent to assessors for convenience, and that the three-tier structure is still in place since it just got adopted over the summer (worth noting that different tiers had different expectations, standards and requirements). But stranger things have happened. Bottom line is that I was wrong and Bilinski is formally on the PRO radar.

    EDIT: math corrected in second paragraph; one list is alphabetical and the other isn't, so I missed a few names when cross-referencing
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #15 MassachusettsRef, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    Probably also worth nothing, since they both did MLS VARs, that Henrik Karlsson and Jorge Ramirez are both not on the new list, despite being on the July 2017 list. Not sure what that means, but it's probably something either really good or really bad for them. I'd lean toward the former direction.

    EDIT to add that Yusri Rudolf, of Canada, was on the July list but not the recent list, too. And he was clearly on the ascendancy so makes me think that these three guys are now in some sort of separate category (or the new list just has some mistakes in it).
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Closing the loop on this, both Ramirez and Rudolf are now PRO VARs, which might explain why they are no longer listed in the developmental tiers (though a few new MLS VARs are listed in the development tiers, so at the very least it just shows they are still around and have been promoted).

    That really only leaves Henrik Karlsson as the big missing name. Not on the PRO website as a 4O or VAR and not in the list of PRO development referees I have seen. Anyone have intel on his status?
     
  17. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In JJ's case, I don't believe he's been in FL for very long and that has increased his "seen-ness", which is why he probably was not on last year's list.

    They may simply be reducing the list because they have been pushing states to have similar tier-like/mentor programs (some seem to be better at it than others, of course), which doesn't seem to be helping funnel people up any quicker, but hopefully that will change soon.
     

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