This idea has some real potential, I think, for players who aren't likely to be on a pro path but have the potential to play on some level in college. As a dad just starting to step into that lane, figuring out the right way to do this is starting to look like a serious part-time job (and, while it's early for my son, real-world advice on how realistic his ambitions are is hard to come by). Anyone heard of other clubs doing this or anything like it?
There's a club by me that's high level, but not a DA. My son has a few friends who play there and according to the parents the club dedicates considerable resources to the college recruitment process, though I don't know the specifics of how they staff it. They work with players to identify schools, develop a strategy to reach out to the coaches, and even have SAT prep classes. Given my kids' ages it's not relevant for us right now (and may never be), so I don't know if they're unique or if other clubs by me do similar things.
the money maker part probably varies state to state, but for Illinois: Revenue Olympic Development program $632,614 Expense Olympic Development Program $460,537 (Illinois Youth Soccer Association form 990 2015) They are only making $160K on ODP but shouldn't it be the opposite? Like Benny Dargle said about SoCal? UsIng Fees and registrations to Subsidize ODP? Level of coaches is subjective but in Illinois it is a crapshoot: a few really good coaches, A few really bad coaches, and a decent number of "Average to Good" coaches.
ODP is and always has been something extra that players do. I think their would be more uproar from people not involved in the program asking why their money went to this when they do not want to participate. According to the statistics that I found, IL has 80,652 registered soccer players (http://rapidsyouthsoccer.org/us-youth-soccer-player-statistics/). A fraction of that population will do ODP. If ODP was free and paid for through fee's more people would definitely do it I am sure. Would I like all ODP programs to be offered at a free/reduced cost, yes, most definitely but like most everything their are costs associated. As for the level of coaches, you will get that everywhere. I think different coaches do it for different reasons. Some do it to gain experience, some do it because they love coaching, the opportunity to work with better players, some do it to supplement current jobs and unfortunately some do it to cash a check. I think all of them do it because they love the game and want to give back though.
I am with ADP here - most of Illinois ODP coaches have little to no experience coaching highly competitive games. In fact I know of a few who come from those tiny community based clubs. You may find one or two who have a B or A license but bring very little or no experience from high level matches. ODP has been pretty bad for awhile now - and conceptually it really does not lend itself to development at all based on these coaches and the schedule.
And then there are those who wany to just add it to their rap sheet of everything from concussion training to waterboy on their clubs web page. Ooooo he's an ODP coach. Playing off of un-informed parents.
So because they coach for small, community based clubs they are not good coaches? I know of many fantastic coaches that coach at smaller clubs that could absolutely coach circles around some of the guys at the bigger Chicagoland clubs (whether they are ODP coaches or not)... Don't judge a coach by where they coach or what license they have; judge a coach by his/her body of work: the relationships they create with their players/families as well as the culture within their teams, how they run their practices, game management, and communication. A lot of times I agree with what you have to say but this is a bit narrow minded. ODP is not the end all be all... neither is the academy system, ID2, etc. It is another way for players to be seen, compete with and against players who share a similar interest in the game and improve themselves as players. Is it for everyone, no. Does it have its own issues, yes but we can say the same for all of the youth soccer platforms out there.
ODP does very little in terms of ID. It's fine for getting a player to understand and gain experience in playing with other players - likley of a higher pool and different coaches. But the frequecy of the schedule lends itself to just being a small bite of the apple. As far as coaches are concerned... I am speaking specifically of a few coaches who do this in order to add it to their list of accomplishments on there "Coaches" section of their club - they have no interest in making the soccer better for the kids. The fact they get into ODP as a coach is sloppy. There should be a minimum B license required IMO. I also mentioned that there are decent coaches in ODP who have not really coached at a high level - that's very true as well. As a whole ODP needs to be redefined and should fold into an overall - outward reaching program to capture players who are not in the DA. Unfortunately there is that USY vs USC thing that keeps any of that from happening. And of course the new US Soccer President who will likely only perpetuate that issue.
What is the new president's platform on youth soccer? Will we see any changes? I really haven't heard from this candidate in this area other than make ODP free.
I would like to see the playoffs of youth soccer to look like the NFL. USY and USC can keep moving forward as is with their leagues but State Cup, Regional and National should be combined. Like NFC vs AFC - those top teams should compete against one another. Then there is the MRL vs NPL - that needs to be fixed and should be a mix of both but on the same path. I think right now MRL has a stronger top division then NPL but NPL is working hard to change that. They have much better ideas but just don't have the competition - by a fair margin. What should ODP be? Not sure if it really fits in against the ID programs today.
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought MRL and NPL were complimentary. MRL being the Midwest Regional League (right?) and NPL the National Premier League? I also don't understand combining State Cup, Regional, and Nationals. IMO, ODP should be treated on the youth side like International duty is on the professional side. Just instead of playing for your country against other countries, you play for your state against other states. One training weekend a month (two days), and 3-4 match weekends (three days) each year. If a month has a match weekend, there's no training weekend that month. I think ODP *CAN* be made relevant if TPTB allow it.
Why would you not combine State/Reg?National? USY dictated (I think in 2012) that any team participating in USC cannot participate in State/Reg/Nat. So USC created their own. What that did was split the competition - no good. Before that you had Magic vs Sockers. Sockers went with USC and Magic went with USY. So now you have top teams not even playing each other. Same thing can be said for MRL and NPL - GECNL and GDA. Top talent is split - diluting the player pools on both sides. I say let them keep their league businesses ($$$) but force them to share at the top to ensure the best pool of players are competing. Playing for your State (ODP) with so few practices does what exactly? There is no time for development or building a team that can gel. It's barely a compliment to club - barely. It has to be something different. What I don't know.
I think the key is Volk's earlier question: What should ODP be? and more specifically - What does US Soccer Federation want it to be? Is it a scouting program for national team programming? Is it scouting and development for national team programming? Who runs it Organization/Scouts/Coaches? Who funds it? The "Affiliate" (USYS, USCS, Super Y) associations won't be happy, but I feel you need to get rid of Four or Five different ODP programs and have only one run by US Soccer that is free. And what do you do with DA? Is some form of ODP the scouting and some form of DA the development for national team programming?
What does USC stand for? I assume USY is US Youth? That being said, AFAIK, all the teams in my state (KY) play in either the State Open Cup or Presidents Cup. Each of those feeds to their own Regional. We don't have a problem with "mixed" leagues. And again I ask, pardon my ignorance, what MRL and NPL stand for. Can a team from Nevada or California play in the MRL? I thought MRL was a regional league and NPL was a National league. In theory, wouldn't the National League be a "higher" level league? How much does the national team practice/play vs. their professional club? I readily agree the 6 practices we currently get, plus one inter-regional weekend, plus one sub regional weekend DEFINITELY doesn't give a team time to gel. ODP gives kids a chance (in theory) to play with the best kids in the state (and then region). In theory, most kids are going to only play with kids within an hour from their home. You may have a top team in that area or you may not. At the same time, you can't have ODP be too involved because of the time commitment for the parents. We're a relatively small state, but some ODP events happen 2-3 hours away (some are 45 minutes). So now you get into the sacrifice/hardship discussion that's happening in the other thread. .
He’s a bit comparing apples to oranges by talking about MRL vs NPL (although I don’t blame him, it’s quite common…more on that below) MRL is a regional league (one of 4, made up of multiple “local” divisions) under banner of the US Youth Soccer… NPL is the overall umbrella league for multiple independent local leagues…such as the Midwest Development League… Both, NPL and US Youth Soccer (MRL) are national leagues with both “local,” regional, and national stages of play…both crown national champs...they are just structured differently…. And it’s because of that differencing structure that people tend to refer to them differently (IMO anyway, YMMV)… Within US Youth Soccer, the 4 Regional Leagues are very weighty in and of themselves and therefor most simply refer to their Region, not their division nor national league (ie, my son plays MRL)… In the NPL, the individual league are rather small and somewhat all over the place (there is no standard naming convention for leagues within the NPL, for example)…as a result, the “local” leagues themselves don’t hold much weight, but the national league they are part of does, so many will refer to the it as NPL, not the Midwest Development League or the Northeast Pre-Academy League…(i.e., my son play in the NPL)…
OK, I appreciate the effort at the explanation, but I'm still confused. My son's team *IS* in MRL (Midwest Regional Legue). In his age group there are the following levels: Premier 1 (Blue & Red divisions) Premier 2 (East & West divisions) First East (Blue & Red) First West (Blue & Red) Qualifier According to the home page, there is also an Eastern Regional League, a Southern Regional Premier League, and a Far West Regional League. The top finishers (I don't know if it's each level or just Premier 1 divisions) get automatic berths in the Regional tournament. If you win your state competition, you also get a berth in Regionals. The winners from Regionals goes on to Nationals. Also if you are in the top of MRL (and presumably the other three regional leagues), you get a slot in the National League. According to it's home page, you play 7 games over two weekends (I've been told it's wrapped up into the CASL, Disney, and Las Vegas Showcases). Is NPL different from the National League? I do think there should be a tournament structure that every club (regardless of affiliation) can enter that leads to a national champion. However, I don't think it should be a USC vs. USY final. It should (IMO of course) be an "open" tournament. Win your state open and you go to regional. Now, if you're going to allow wildcards out of the regional league (MRL in my case), then you should allow a wildcard out of the USC (and what does that stand for?).
Sorry, my explanation was more aimed at someone didn’t even know what the letters MRL and NPL stood for and was very general and basic in description (of both)… My son was in MRL for a couple years, so I think you have the gist of how MRL and all that works….I have no direct experience with NPL, so will leave the details of how that works to others… However, I think I can definitively answer that the National League fed by MRL and the other three Regions is NOT the NPL, if that’s what you are asking/confused about…they are two totally separate entities…
The youth scene is very confusing for a parent. I sort of understand it but man it took some research to get it. It would be nice if it was all under one umbrella vs youth associations competing with each. I don't know if the new president is going to address this issue.
Not sure if this will help or confuse things but: US Soccer Federation (USSF) – The top entity Youth Soccer Organizations are “affiliates” of US Soccer Federation: US Youth Soccer (USYS or USY) US Club Soccer (USCS or USC) AYSO Super Y (Affiliated through US Soccer League (USL) ) For the two big Youth Organizations USYS and USCS, they further have State Affiliates. For example Illinois: USYS = Illinois Youth Soccer Association (IYSA), with member leagues Illinois Womens Soccer League (IWSL), Central Illinois Youth Soccer League (CIYSL), Young Sportsmen’s Soccer League USCS = Northern Illinois Soccer League (NISL) Not sure if there is a central Illinois USCS league and too lazy to look... USYS and USCS also have national/regional Leagues: USYS = National League (NL) , Midwest Regional League (MRL) USCS = National Premier League (NPL) Chicago National Premier League (CNPL) , Midwest Development League (MDL). This is confusing because MDL is truly a regional League however CNPL is more of a local league even though it has “national” in the title. To add more confusion: USCS also sanctions Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) which is a national league totally outside of NPL And another National League: US Development Academy (USDA) directly sanctioned by USSF Moving on to “National” championships: USYS: 1) US Youth Soccer National Championship Series and 2) Presidents Cup Series. USCS: 1) National Cup and 2) NPL Finals. ECNL: ECNL National Playoffs USDA: National Playoffs Super Y: National Playoffs And there are Olympic development Programs (ODP). ODP’s are affiliate programs “approved” by USSF to earn a classification as an ODP. USYS: Olympic Development Program Referred to as ODP. Note - When people just say “My Child plays ODP” 99% of the time this is the one they are talking about. USCS: Player Development Program (PDP), ID2 ECNL: ID2 Super Y: ODP (but not the same ODP as USYS) USSF National Training Center (NTC) also referred to as US Soccer Training Centers but these are the same as NTC. Not sure if this is technically an ODP as in did USSF ask themselves formally for approval? But for simplicity sake, we will call it an ODP. So for Sam Gordon; you are speaking about the USYS “family” of leagues and championships, but there are multiple Affiliates that have National Leagues, Regional leagues / National Championships / and ODP. The USCS Heirarchy is not as straight forward as the USYS hierarchy as far as National/Regional/Local leagues (they are somewhat blended) And also to note: I likely made some mistakes….
1) Thank you 2) I hope to remember some of this. 3) Holy crap, that's complicated. Why can't we all get along?
So how does a team make the DA? Or any other regional league within the youth associations? Do they apply or is there some type of promotion for winning.
**The DA and NTC's are not just sanctioned, they're directly run by US Soccer. The alphabet soup above is one of the reasons why US Soccer created the DA and NTC's. The player pathway is so convoluted and way too spread out to efficiently scout. Just imagine the workload and costs for scouts to cover all of these platforms...it's impossible. Now we have to remember: US Soccer cannot make decisions for USYS, US Club or Super-Y and their respective ID programs...so the only realistic solution was to create their own platform that they could manage and scout directly. Is it the perfect system? No! But it's still evolving. There's a significant investment being made into educating scouts and creating an internal system of player tracking. This, coupled with the DA's continued expansion since the beginning, means more players are being seen. It could be said that this is a "closed system", but in reality it's not. The NTC's include players from the DA but also players identified by the scouting network from local and regional platforms outside the DA. For example, at the January 2004 YNT camp all players were selected directly from the DA or NTC's. There was a large contingent of non-DA players from markets without DA clubs, but these players were identified by local scouts and invited to the NTC. Again, this is all about PLAYER ID, not PLAYER DEVELOPMENT. No program that operates trainings and competition at the frequency/duration of USYS ODP, NTC's, id2, etc. will have the same impact as a program that offers multiple weekly trainings and weekly competition in a 8-10mo cycle.
To bring this back to what the OP was about (and definitely ties into this whole conversation) I submit a link the following podcast (warning - you will need time to sit down with beverages of your choice to listen to this). It's a fascinating discussion on the politics that led to the election of the USSF President, and really ties into the split between USYS and USCS (when they go into the discussion of US Soccer being managed top-down previously by MLS with Sunil and Carter's candidacy vs the candidates for change, ultimately settling on Cordeiro as the candidate sitting on the fence) - http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22412297