Semi-Official 2018 San Jose Earthquakes Roster Thread

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by jetdog9, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am always up to trying something different. Our "all-american" staff got us 3 playoff appearances in 10 years, though I think a lot of that had to do with how willing our ownership was to invest during that reign.Jesse obviously has a lot more resources to work with.
     
  2. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Yeah, again, I think there's a balance to be had. I don't think Doyle was all that helpful to Dom. How would Dom do with the roster that Jesse is putting together this year? Would it be worse than what Stahre does? Or better? We'll never know, unfortunately. And until I see evidence otherwise, I don't have reason to believe that Stahre is fundamentally a different coach than Dom was tactically, based on what I've seen and read.
     
  3. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a "requirement" most of us are glad he hasn't done. We don't need any retreads. He's signed a whole bunch of up and coming Americans (NASL, USL, HGs, and soon to from the college system) instead of other team's rejects, which is positive change. John Doyle and the era of aging free agents appears, thankfully, over. If he gets a player here or there from MLS in some season it'll be fine...if he does not, equally fine. Even our own released players he was able to just let go and didn't try to resign them on lesser contracts, he went younger. Lazy Doyle would have just worked on trying to talk his own veterans like Bernardez into resigning lower value deals.

    Calvillo and Yeferson so it's done. They're fully aware of needing to join the trend of being a selling league and know a good place to look for such players in South and Central America. It's just a matter of getting some success so ownership will trust them to invest even more. Also signings into Reno should also count for the net as that is part of our development pipeline and Quakes control who they sign. Mfeka is an African. Gonzalez is a Canadian. Guy Abend is Israeli. Darwin Espinal is Hondouran. Victor Palae is Brazilian. This is worldwide!

    You just don't like he threw back one of your pet fish. We have Godoy and Cummings as players from the Americas. Quiwberg is Columbian as much as he's Swedish. We might have the most diverse squad in all of MLS now. His first season getting Hoeson, Flo and Hyka is completely expected since he had virtually no time on the job back then but still wanted to try to improve the squad right away. He wasn't going to instantly know the Americas. Besides which the process of aquiring a player is not instantaneous from when they are identified. It's only been 1 year.
    Also very important for this particular offseason is we just got considerably younger. Where we lag is not lack of a wide net. It's that the ownership isn't ready for the $6 million dollar man some of the other teams are already doing. But it's been a seachange and there's nothing myopic, geographically or otherwise, about it.
     
  4. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #179 JazzyJ, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Again, I'm looking for some balance and an indication that the net is being cast as wide as possible. It doesn't have be "exactly equal" from all corners. Certainly Dom and Doyle relied too much on MLS veteran players, but again, it's all about balance and making sure you are casting your net wide enough. You're going to tell me that there isn't one player with MLS experience that could help the Quakes? The pendulum swinging is a good thing, but pendulums tend to swing too far the other way.

    Once again, I'm looking for a certain balance, not one American and one South American, though that's a start. So far Jesse has made a single starter quality signing that isn't European. One - Yeferson. It's been Flo and Hyka and Affolter and Qwiberg and Magnus and Hoesen re-sign, and on the technical staff it's been Stahre, Covelo, Cremanzidis, and our own Richard Nixon stand-in, de Crook.

    Unnecessary derogatory personal attack, and not something I was thinking of nor was it remotely the genesis of my argument, which I've laid out pretty clearly here.

    You are counting players that were already here, like Cummings. I'm talking about new signings. Other than players acquired in the draft or young Reno bound players, he has made one non-Euro new signing, and 0 new non-Euros added to the technical staff. That's like a 4-0 blowout: 4 Euros to 0 non-Euros.
     
  5. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Quiwberg is Columbian as much as he's Swedish."

    This is simply not true. Qwiberg (not Quiw) was adopted as a baby. His family is Swedish. He grew up in Sweden, speaking Swedish, surrounded by Swedish culture and in Swedish schools with other Swedes. His entire soccer development was in Sweden, he's spent pretty much his entire seven year professional career at Swedish clubs, and with three Swedish youth clubs before that. In fact it seems like the closest he's been to Colombia (not u) since he was a baby may be San Jose California? I probably speak better Spanish than him.

    "Personal Life
    Qwiberg was born in Colombia but adopted by a Swedish family as a baby.
    This background was one of the reasons he elected to move his career to the United States in 2018, so that he could be closer to Colombian culture, learn Spanish alongside his Spanish-speaking teammates at San Jose, and become a part of the city's large Hispanic community."
     
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  6. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes

    Along with the acquisition of Qwiberg, Ockford, Akanyirige, Marie, Quintana, and the presumed activation of Cummings...
     
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  7. Tom Szabo

    Tom Szabo Member

    Dec 31, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Fundamentally there are some major problems with Kinnear as a coach in a league that is getting better in that he favors effort over ability and experience over potential. So yes Kinnear would very likely be worse than what Stahre does. I'm sure Stahre was hired in part because he shares Fioranelli's vision of player development becoming a key pillar of the club's identity.
     
  8. Tom Szabo

    Tom Szabo Member

    Dec 31, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Only 2 players were selected in the waiver draft (one was Colvey). Can you provide an example of a player with MLS experience that you suggest we trade for? Somebody we need, who another team is willing to release in a reasonable trade or has already been traded this transfer window, at a reasonable cost? You are assuming Fioranelli hasn't looked for players with MLS experience to help the team. It's more likely there simply aren't/weren't any.
     
  9. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I agree about those issues with Kinnear and have posted about it quite a bit. However, at this point we don't how much Stahre will value experience over potential, partly because he's never really stayed anywhere more than 2 years in his career. What incentive would he have to take the long view with player development if he's off to the next job in 2 years? I think there is some narrative about him once playing a couple of young Swedish players on one of his teams. Other than that, I don't know that there's any evidence of him being a "youth development coach", again, mainly due to his coaching wanderlust.

    As for "effort over ability", I watched a few of his games at Häcken. It was a lot of direct play / bypass the midfield to "athletic" forwards. Let me put it this way. Quincy Amerikwa would do the Quakes forward you'd want to play the most in that system - a feisty high-effort ball-winner type.

    Maybe he'll surprise me and really make an effort to develop young players, and by that I don't mean just stashing them in Reno, and maybe he'll commit to playing a more attractive style, but at this point we just don't know, and I haven't seen any evidence yet to make me believe that will happen. Trying to keep an open mind, but a bit concerned.
     
  10. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #185 JazzyJ, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    I'm not talking about waiver draft! Any MLS player is technically available for trade given the right incentive / compensation. Probably won't happen now, but Lee Nguyen was apparently looking to be traded earlier this offseason. His salary last year was $500k. Hyka's guaranteed amount last year was $520k and I don't know if there is a transfer fee being paid on top of that. Would you rather have had Hyka's 3g, 5a, or Nguyen's 11g, 15a?

    Justin Meram was in the market. Last year, 13g, 7a at $300-something-k (likely to go up significantly this year, but I'm looking at last year for comparison of value). Jamir Hyka - $520k, 3g, 5a.

    Looking for a young center back with size? How about a proven good young MLS player like Walker Zimmerman from FCD, a 200k player vs. spending $1 million on a Uruguayan who is unproven in MLS?
     
  11. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You're sounding like a bean-counter again.

    Building a championship quality team involves an esprit de corps, with the whole being more than the sum of its parts. Who's to say Lee Nguyen fits in better for the Quakes than Hyka, and who's to say the 2018 stats won't favor Hyka over Nguyen?

    Case Keenum, Nick Foles and Jared Goff all sucked with the woeful 2016 Rams but quarterbacked three different teams to the playoffs in 2017.

    Hyka is a good player. He's likely to do better in 2017 in a stable system than he did under the disjointed systems in 2016. Apart from historical MLS stats, what makes Nguyen better?
     
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  12. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Sure "esprit de corps" is important, but we don't the value of Lee Nguyen for "esprit de corps" relative to Jamir Hyka. Why would we assume that Hyka has it and Nguyen doesn't? What we do know is productivity, and based on what we know Nguyen is more productive by double or triple.

    We don't even have to compare Nguyen to Hyka. Szabo was asking, essentially, which MLS veteran player would you want. I think we could probably use a player who produces 11g, 15a. Now if it turns out he's an axe murderer, maybe not so much. But haven't seen evidence of that yet.
     
  13. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Because reportedly Nguyen is demanding a trade from his current team, and Hyka is not.
     
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  14. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    OJ was acquitted. But, yeah, didn't work out so well for the Niners when they traded for him. :)
     
  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There were plenty of good players left exposed in the expansion draft (for example Yamil Asad who had 7 goals 13 assists last year), which means you could have had LAFC select them, and then made a trade with LAFC. Montreal did that, trading Ciman for two expansion draft picks, Raheem Edwards and Jukka Raitala.
     
  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay, but Nguyen put up 11 goals 15 assists last year, for a team he doesn't want to play for... maybe his production would be even better if he was happy? Hyka doesn't want out of San Jose and had 3 goals 5 assists last year.
     
  17. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You're right; maybe Nguyen would do better elsewhere. And maybe if Hyka was regularly in the starting lineup his production would increase significantly, as well. I just don't think you can hypothesize who is the better fit for the 2018 Quakes based simply on last year's stats.
     
  18. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is a certain level of geographic or stylistic balance so important? As long as they can play together as a team is what matters. Internationally, we previously had a central american and caribbean focus, and those were not good years for the most part. (Our US players arguable gave us our greatest year, 2012 , Wondo, Gordon, Lenny, Busch, Beita...
    So, we are more euro-focused now. Let's see how it works!
     
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Quakes are even less Euro-focused when we acknowledge that Vako is Asian. :)
     
  20. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought I already dispelled that viewpoint?
     
  21. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  22. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I always consult UEFA for my geopolitical perspectives. :)
     
  23. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Meh, after 6 loyal years with NE, and around 50 goals and 50 assists, I don't begrudge the man a desire to play somewhere else before his career winds down. Besides he was more gracious with his assist-giving to his teammates than Hyka was by a factor of 3 :).

    And in any case, my point is not just about Nguyen at all. That is just one of dozens of examples of MLS players who could make the Quakes better, even if we exclude guys who clubs would probably never trade, like Giovinco.
     
  24. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #199 JazzyJ, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    As I said multiple times, it does not have to be an "even distribution", or even all that close. However, I think it is important to cast your net as wide as possible to have the best chance to catch the best fish. And it is not just about "geography". I'm talking about two things. 1) American / Central American / South American players (and we should include Africa and other non-Euro countries as well, and Don G.'s favorite Asian country, Georgia), and 2) the pool of MLS players, regardless of where they came from.

    Based on the moves that have been made so far, one could get the sense that Jesse doesn't really fully respect MLS players. He feels like he can do better with 1) Euro imports, and 2) young players, Euro or not, who can be molded into better players by all of the Euro smartness that he's bringing to the club, or whatever it is that he is bringing to the club that is going to enable it go on the road and "impose its will" on the opposition. It's a great goal, but no club in MLS history has really been able to do that with any consistency, and I'm waiting to hear about how he plans to do it.

    As a wise man once said,

    "The pendulum always swings too far in the other direction, but it is somewhere in the middle where it hits the peg." - J, Jazzy - 2018
     
  25. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course not. But it's about who is available, for what price, their age, and their trajectory. Hip-hip-hooray for no aging, over-priced MLS vets whose best days are behind them...Hip-hip-hooray on not signing back our own whose best days are behind them just because it's a cheaper contract. Hip-hip-hooray for not spending a huge chunk of the TAM on just one star MLS player and instead casting a wide net.

    Emphasis on "certain." Add in specific, narrowly defined. Yes, you're clear, but all the constraints don't resonate as meaning anything, even if it's about balance now instead of the wide net. It's arbitrary stuff about these players count and those don't. The scouting net has to be wide given the diversity of nationalities and leagues the players in the organization have come from. Vast improvement. Hopefully Jesse's not in a pickle because of the international slots. Even if we have a plan for this season, they're generally not traded for multi-season and we have not been good about getting players green cards. I think that's the only problem all the Euro signings have created. But I'd rather bee worrying about that than be complaining that we stood pat in the offseason and just signed a couple of MLS vets....or were still stuck playing the game of identify the nobody trialist.
     

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