To elaborate on what akindc wrote, this is the collision of diagrams 4 and 5. Diagram 4 makes clear that, not withstanding the language of Law 11, a player can interfere with play before touching the ball: A player in an offside position (A) may be penalised before playing or touching the ball, if, in the opinion of the referee, no other team-mate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball. Exactly where to draw the line on this can get fuzzy at times, and I haven't seen the play in question. But from your description, it sounds spot on, especially as the call is expected at the top levels. Your description says it was clear the OSP player was going to get the ball--that sounds like a perfect application of diagram 4 and a good flag from the AR that was properly accepted by the R. I think that many thought the recent tweaks to the language of Law 11 would make diagram 4 go away. But it didn't and remains good guidance.
Thanks for the clarification. I guess it was in the opinion of the AR. Was told that the only time to raise the flag was when they are involved in play i.e interfering with a defender or when they touch the ball. Only exception was and offside attacker vs goalkeeper. Had an issue with a coach complaining when I was raising the flag when the ball was touched, but the State in the middle backed me up on it and told me I was applying the law correctly at halftime.
I don't know where you are in your growth process as a referee. There is only so much that can be covered in detail in an intro referee course--they often focus on the 95% of possible OS calls that don't rely on the more abstruse nuances of Law 11. If you haven't already, spend some time with the OS diagrams in the back of the law book, as they help with some of the nuance. In particular, parse out diagrams 3, 4, & 5. I think understanding the difference is this: when the only plausible thing to happen is that the OSP player is going to touch the ball, it's OK to flag early and not waste everyone's time. But when there are multiple plausible outcomes, we wait to see what happens. And since new referees are more prone to early flags ("Hey, I see that! He was OS!"), wait-and-see maybe emphasized more than diagram 4 with new referees. But no one can become a greatly skilled AR (or R) without understanding the various scenarios set out in the diagrams.) (There are different ways to dissect the likely-collision-with-the-GK "exception. Some will say its a safety issue. Others will say that either the OSP attacker will get to the ball first (which would be interfering with play) or the OSP player will be so close that he is challenging the GK for the ball (which would be interfering with an opponent)--so either way, the only plausible outcome is OS. In any event, especially at youth levels, we should never let play develop when there is a significant likelihood of a collision between an OSP attacker and a GK.)
It's not only okay, it's expected and required for survival as a top-level AR. If a professional player or even a high-level amateur player sprints 40 yards to chase down a ball, @GearRef , only for you to flag him as being offside, you've made an enemy for the day (or season) and you've shown him you value citing the Laws over understanding the sport. It will be even worse if you do it in front of 3, 10, or 40 thousand people. The game expects an offside decision in situations like this. When in doubt, do what the game expects. @socal lurker gives good advice in his posts.
Looking at Diagram 5, I feel that this is the better display of the actual play in the game, but in the match I feel the attacker was much closer to the ball so I can see why the assistant raised his flag earlier if we are going by diagram 4. Thanks also for the added help on the difference.
3-match touchline ban for Wenger: http://www.espnfc.com/arsenal/story...enals-arsene-wenger-three-match-touchline-ban
The handling call in the WBA match was farcical tbh but Wenger can have no complaints about the ban he got for those comments. The PK v Bellerin was correct though IMO but I suspect that they'll feel the 3 games he got for the WBA comments is enough.
Saturday 13 January Chelsea v Leicester City Referee: Mike Jones Assistants: Simon Beck, Mark Scholes Fourth official: Lee Mason Crystal Palace v Burnley Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Simon Bennett, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Bobby Madley Huddersfield Town v West Ham United Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Eddie Smart, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Mike Dean Newcastle United v Swansea City Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick Watford v Southampton Referee: Roger East Assistants: Ian Hussin, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Anthony Taylor West Bromwich Albion v Brighton & Hove Albion Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Stephen Child, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Tony Harrington 17:30 Tottenham Hotspur v Everton Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Lee Betts, Daniel Cook Fourth official: Stuart Attwell Sunday 14 January 13:30 AFC Bournemouth v Arsenal Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Harry Lennard, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Lee Probert 16:00 Liverpool v Manchester City Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Scott Ledger, Richard West Fourth official: Mike Dean Monday 15 January 20:00 Manchester United v Stoke City Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Adam Nunn, Constantine Hatzidakis Fourth official: Bobby Madley
Oh my. Watford with an injury time equalizer via the hand of their midfielder. I'd expect this one to be put front and center by the pro-VAR side.
I'm sure it will. That pic isn't a very good view of it though (as they rarely are) as the hand was up there long before the cross was put in and the player did try to head the ball. That said it sure looked like an opportunist "oh I'll just guide it with my hand" type of deal that deserved to be called.
The FA released the comments from Mike Dean's match report. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that he only got a touchline ban. http://www.skysports.com/football/n...sgrace-as-fa-reveal-reasons-for-touchline-ban
IMHO, entering the referee locker room should. When the misbehavior is extended far beyond the technical area, so should the ban. YMMV.
I can definitely vibe with that. I have so many personal feelings and emotions wrapped up with how the English FA has dealt out punishments, my extreme distaste for Mike Dean, and my heavy bias for anything Arsenal so I shouldn't even be posting about this.
You're the second Arsenal fan in week to make this comment. I've been posting in this forum for a long time and I've called out plenty of bad decisions for Spurs. He walked into a referees dressing room and called him a cheat. That's a big deal.
In both the Neville Carragher bit and the BT Sport documentary, PL and FIFA refs Taylor and Oliver mention that they allow a manager to come in and chat 15 minutes later, which is smart because it gives the referees a break and the coach a chance to cool down, and have a good conversation where they aren't flipping out at the referees. If the refs say it's okay for the managers to enter, then it's ok. In this case, with Wenger, it is absolutely unacceptable because he enters without permission and goes off on Dean, so the suspension is absolutely warranted.
While I might agree with you in principle the FA usually doesn't do stadium bans on the higher levels unless there are multiple offences (which might have come to Wenger for his comments after the next game but apparently there where no charges for that). And the touchline ban does extent beyond the technical area tbf, you cannot go anywhere near the referees (or other FA personal) pre- or post game either.
I was watching a doc about officiating in the premier league and I guess its common practice for managers/captains to enter the dressing room to discuss interpretations or decisions. However, they aren't allowed to barge in. Most of the time it's after the referee team cleans up, debriefs amongst themselves and then they hear questions. So wenger was most definitely out of line. I am not sure if this is a British thing only or Euro thing. I also think from an American sports culture it seems very foreign. I can only imagine having bill belicheck enter an umpires locker room or Jon Gruden. Ymmv
Saturday 20 January 12:30 Brighton & Hove Albion v Chelsea Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Eddie Smart, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Kevin Friend Arsenal v Crystal Palace Referee: Chris Kavanagh (pictured above) Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Adam Nunn Fourth official: Andre Marriner Burnley v Manchester United Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Ian Hussin Fourth official: Mike Jones Everton v West Bromwich Albion Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Gary Beswick, Richard West Fourth official: Anthony Taylor Leicester City v Watford Referee: Lee Probert Assistants: Simon Beck, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Graham Scott Stoke City v Huddersfield Town Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Scott Ledger, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick West Ham United v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Lee Betts, Stephen Child Fourth official: Lee Mason 17:30 Manchester City v Newcastle Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Simon Bennett, Marc Perry Fourth official: Craig Pawson Sunday 21 January 16:00 Southampton v Tottenham Hotspur Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Harry Lennard, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Graham Scott Monday 22 January 20:00 Swansea City v Liverpool Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Daniel Cook Fourth official: Mike Jones