I think that's likely true. The "moment of truth" comes early/young for gymnastics, at least from what I've seen. Daughter of a family friend was in competitive gymnastics, but before she was done with grade school it was already clear she wasn't going to make the cut, so to speak. Where puberty is something of an equalizer in soccer, the weeding process is pretty much over before it even begins.
I’ve always thought it funny that practicing 3 days a week in soccer is overuse but gymnastics, dance and cheerleading are often done 4-5 days a week. (Often in concert with one another) Additionally, a cheerleading coach or dance teacher has more demands on performance than most soccer coaches. If a dance teacher saw how most youth teams line up and manage a corner kick they would have a heart attack. Designing a soccer training program for 3-4 days a week without creating overuse injuries isn’t impossible. But, the mantra is that practicing that much will cripple all of our players. Who knew cheerleaders were tougher?
Terrier - I couldn't agree more. I have always asked why is soccer different than about any other sport in this respect. Swimming, gymnastics, basketball, wrestling, track, etc. all have found ways to practice 5+ days a week and they are not constantly "walking wounded" or handicapped the rest of their lives. Many of these sports are training twice a day, weights/conditioning in the morning and practice in the afternoon for 10 workouts a day plus games but soccer has to be restricted to 6 hours of practice plus one game a week or they suffer from over use. I don't get it.
I think it's very age dependent. I'm not a fan of 3 or more formal practices per week for younger (say, 10 and under) players in any sport. My preference is for kids that age to be able to play multiple sports in a season and a third day of practice starts to make that difficult. I see it as more of a mental burnout issue than an overuse issue.
A Dutch coach many years ago with a nag to do something different and unexpected once put in front of his players a slender frail ballet dancer and told the guys she was going to lead them in exercise. The men started giggling (like how long will she last physically) and started the training. Well after some time they had no laugh anymore as she was still happily exercising while those muscle men had to throw the towel. They never looked at ballet dancers the same way since then
We know a family whose daughter stuck with club(?) gymnastics -- crazy practice schedule and all -- through high school, in spite of the fact that she was a solid 5-11 or 6-0 tall. And she wound up getting an offer last year to do gymnastics at a small college (DIII in other sports, I think, though I'm not sure how that works in gymnastics). I don't know if she took it, and I can't imagine there was any scholarship money included at that level.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/theres-an-overuse-injury-epidemic-in-youth-sports-2017-06-20 It is an epidemic! Run and hide. I mean walk,then rest, then hide.
This confuses me, isn't training just that, training, regardless of the sport being played. Around here many kids play soccer in the fall, basketball over the winter and back to soccer in the spring. Wouldn't running on a bball court be just as hard on the body (legs) as a child who participated in soccer training in the winter. If he was from Brazil and playing 4-5 hours of street soccer everyday would that be better for his body? Also some advise/opions please: My son right now is training 6 days a week for soccer for the winter. I am not forcing him, this is his choice, but am I letting him do to much? He has team practice Sunday for 1.5 hours and Monday and Wednesday for 1 hour. Tuesday he either does goalie training for an hour (he loves playing goalie, is just really good as a field player), or participates in the practice of one of his old coaches. Thursdays either goalie training or arctraining (cage training with a "pitching machine that shoots the ball to his feet to take touches). Tuesday and Thursday are completely his choice, if he doesn't want to, we do not go. (has never happened). Saturday is a club training academy style fro 1.5 hours. So the question is- am I allowing too much? should we cut back- Would he be better off spending Tuesday and Thursdays in the Gym playing basketball, like several of his teammates, or just lounging at home in front of a screen. He is a U11 player. His goal is to make the local DA team and or the ODP team. He is very passionate about playing soccer, often wanting to be at least 30 minutes early to practice, and I have to drag him off after practice to go home. He also helps with coaching the u6-u8 academy players for 1-2 hours on Saturdays (when schedule allows him to be there).
One man’s opinion is the “overuse epidemic” is overblown. Making somebody train when they don’t want to would be unwise and being unaware of the necessity to get rest would be unwise. There should be variety in the training and something like a few days off or a family vacation periodically to provide some real downtime makes good sense. The country talks about # of touches needed to be proficient and then schedules practice 2 days a week...our players should be proficient when they are roughly 42 years old.
I think this is an interesting point, although, I do think soccer's demands on the body are greater than with basketball. Just my opinion. The problem with all of this is that most of us will probably never know if it's too much until it is too late. And obviously every kid is different. I do tend to think that winter is the time to ramp down a bit because I think winter training surfaces can be harder on the knees and feet than grass and I have seen a lot of girls develop ankle/knee issues by the time the spring rolls around. However, if your kid is loving what he's doing, it's hard to make that choice to reduce activity. My one daughter is a competitive gymnast and trains many hours per week, but with gymnastics, they do spend a fair amount of time standing around waiting to get on equipment, depending on the size of the group at that training session. That is why the hours spent in the gym are far greater than a sport like soccer. And for my daughter, the time spent there is never too much. But, again I will never know if it is too much, possibly until she stops competing altogether and develops back problems At the end of it all, the life lessons these kids learn from competitive sports are many. Do they outweigh injury to the body? I can't answer that. If you ask high school and college age kids who suffer from overuse injuries if they would have done anything differently, I wonder what they would say? My guess is that many would not have changed a thing.
Totally agree. The operative point is the start of this thread regarding why we aren’t more successful and what kind of structure would make us more successful. Playing full field scrimmages 4 days a week with a game on Saturday would be unwise. But coaches can work on a variety of things to reduce repetitive wear and tear while still improving skills. The article I posted above talks about doctors observing there are more injuries than there used to be. There are more kids, more girls participating and an unclear data relationship between today’s overuse injuries and yesterday’s sore knee.
Christian Pulisic's parents used to worry about the same thing. Would take the ball away from him only to find him practicing with it later. They tried to get him involved in other sports but soccer was his passion and he would not be denied. I think it worked out okay for them. I would watch him close, if he starts showing signs of fatigue or muscle strain then you need to act. Kids used to "play" hard as a matter of rule. We had no video, TV sucked, there was a forest full of trees that needed climbing bike ramps to be jumped, motorcycles tracks to ride, and four sports a year to be played. We stayed on the go from after school until bath time daily. On the weekends we came in for lunch if we didn't go an adventure and pack a lunch. We ran, we jumped, we were active, and none of us ever suffered "overuse" injuries. YMMV but it is high time we cease and desist with the sedentary wussification of american youth. If he has a lot of activity on "hard" surfaces that probably needs to be watched real close, but his body should give indications if it is getting over used. If he is playing that much organiized soccer you are probably not poor, take him to a doctor and discuss having an MRI and then maybe do another one in six months or a year and let the medical professionals set your mind at ease and disregard internet keyboard diagnosticians such as myself.
There are 2 sides to the question how much time to spend on practice, a physical one and an abilty developing one. Old school players like Cruijff, Bergkamp, Kluivert used to play soccer in the street whenever they could. They did it until they were tired. In formal training circumstances there's a need for observing when a kid comes near his/her physical limit. Exercising when the body is "depleted" is useless, as your capablity to refine your skills are gone. You only enhance when the energy level allows the body to do so. Playing in the street has the benefit of a lack of coercion and when the body says stop they stop playing. A few years ago I posted the scheme used by Feyenoord to develop Clasie. He couldnot keep track with the rest of the kids and some were ready to send him off. But instead of demanding him to do the same intensity of training as the other kids, which would seriously damage his development of technique, they used a dedicated scheme to fit his training to his energy level and thus giving him the fitness required to master the technique and tactics.
The thing with Gymnastics is there is a lot of waiting. Gymnasts often need to train 4-5 times a week for 3 hours just to get the reps in. Each day is pretty dedicated to an apparatus and the number of floors, for a floor routine or uneven bars are limited and need to be shared. In most cases a circuit is set up to ensure time on a apparatus. Also, like lifting, the wait is also very necessary to let muscles recover so that the particular trick or exercise can be done again and done safely.
I don’t disagree, I’m not suggesting 4 grueling practices a week. There can be proper management of practice, recovery and prevention. Instead, the typical approach is 2 nights a week, and those two aren’t grueling either.
Not sure about a MRI unless the child is reporting pain symptoms that can't be diagnosed by a doctor or physiotherapist. I don't see anything wrong with a child playing soccer 6 days a week as long as he/she is wearing the proper shoes for the surface (AG, FG, etc) with better inserts than what comes with the shoe. Talk with a podiatrist as to which stud pattern or style of shoe fits your child's feet type (hypervenom, magista etc.). Our podiatrist was against the sock style shoe for my child. When he/she is a bit older (13?) find a qualified Athletic Trainer or Exercise Scientist/Physiologist that can regularly assess your child to make sure he/she is balanced. My daughter has weak hamstrings so she has specific exercises to strengthen them. Have a review every 6-8 weeks. You shouldn't need a weekly personal trainer if your child is self motivated. I would also suggest swimming or riding a stationary bike rather than pounding the streets to keep match fit. Get him/her to stretch and roll out every day and eat healthy. Add a weekly recovery day, monthly deep tissue massage (if they are playing a lot) and a month or two of no organised sports. And limit tournaments and multiple day camps if possible! Injuries set your child back and cost more money in the long run than the preventative things that I suggested above. When you invest your time and money it's easy to forget that you're not their manager or coach or you'll ruin it for them!!! It's their sport and experience - not yours.
If they were getting many if not most of their touches in a non-training environment--playing with friends & neighbors, for example--that wouldn't be a problem. Easier said than done, of course. The lack of pickup/street soccer is a big problem.
Agree. I would say 99% of the pickup games I see are folks who are likely not originally from this country and are well into their adult life. My youngest will periodically go play soccer with peers on a day off from school but I don’t see young kids playing soccer for fun. Of course I don’t see kidd playing any sport for fun so it isn’t just soccer.
My oldest soccer playing daughter and friend/teammates used to play during recess. I think they liked it, but a couple of the best didn't always get along. There may have been some clique-ish ness to it at times. I think you see people play basketball (especially in nicer weather) where I am, but I seldom see soccer the same way.
In a way to make it cool could help. In the Netherlands kids saw players like Kluivert, Davids, Schneijder, van Persie etc. teasing each other with tricks, making it cool to emulate and copy in such a way it has become a street culture.
This gets to why I think school soccer is more important than many recognize--it's not the level of play or coaching vs. club, it's the fact that kids find fellow players in their own school & neighborhood. My son always liked playing, and when he was little he and his club teammates got along great. But they didn't live in the same neighborhood, and they didn't go to the same schools. When he was in Middle School, he played for his school team. Which was, to be clear, not a good team and did not play good soccer. The coach was a teacher who had played in college but had never coached and didn't seem particularly interested in learning how to coach. Not that it mattered, because--middle school soccer. It's just not very good. BUT--my son made friends in school who loved to play. And they began hanging out, playing pickup among themselves and with older brothers, other neighborhood kids, etc. The same situation developed in High school, only there the net was cast wider and the kids were old enough they no longer needed rides from parents to get together. Lots more pickup games, either at local parks or at local indoor facilities. My son got seven years of informal, unstructured, unsupervised "street soccer" largely through the friendships and contacts he made through his school teams. That never would have happened through club soccer, or through an academy had he attended one of those.
Indeed, playing as a kid is important, never mind who with. I donot think the kids Johan Crijuff played with in the street were as good as he was.
@Terrier1966 and @MonagHusker are both right to note that here in the States, most pickup soccer you're likely to see involves foreign-born kids and adults; and kids in general just aren't playing pickup sports for fun, period. We live in a pretty populous, diverse suburban area. Lots of Hispanic, Asian, and African kids who play pickup often with older family members and neighbors. So my son was able to benefit from that, once he started making "soccer friends" through school soccer. But in many other communities I don't know if that's possible. If we lived in the western, rather than eastern, part of Prince William County, Virginia, it would have been much less likely to work out the way it did.
But yes, to your actual point--I totally agree. It's good to play in an unstructured, no-pressure environment. That's where you get your confidence on the ball and develop your own playing style.