Hi, I‘ve been getting into some stat taking based on game films and things are more complicated than they seem at first glance. For one, just defining what is what proved to be a challenge. After some googling, I see that I am not the only one who struggles with it. In fact, the German League (Deutsche Fußball Liga) has published a 64 page document which defines all aspects of the game actions (I think this is used by OPTA or Detre or whoever does all the record keeping for them). Anyway, this document is not public for some reason, but they have released a couple chapters defining Goals and Own Goals. The rest is under wraps. So.... does anyone here have a pdf copy? The document is titled, in German of course, “Definitionskatalog Offizielle Spieldaten” I would love to have a look. Alternately, what do you guys use as a guide for what defines what? For example, when a player one touches a ball to pass is that counted as an actual pass? What if the player was under pressure from a bad pass, and the subsequent one touch does not reach the target.. is that considered a bad pass? What if the pass hits a defender and goes out of bounds? Is that a good pass because possesion was maintained or bad because the target was not reached? All these little things go on and on....
I don't know how it's done statistically, but I think a pass off a defender and out of bounds should be considered completed or not a pass. It certainly shouldn't be considered a bad pass. The basketball equivalent is being fouled in the act of shooting a missed field goal that would have counted if it went in, and if it doesn't go in it doesn't count as an attempt. Furthermore, the defender could kick the ball out of bounds for a corner kick, and then the player who passed it could be better off than if his pass went to his intended teammate.
That’s a decent way to think about it. Although, the basketball analagy isn’t quite the same. In soccer, if the player is always attempting low percentage passes where a defender is well positioned, that should somehow be captured. In this, the player was not fouled and there was no illegal play. The passer is just making bad decisions. Unlike if the player is actually fouled, then there is an an illegal play by the opponent and that should not be counted against the offensive player. I guess another way to think about it is to ask “did the pass reach the target”? In the case of ‘off the defender and out of bounds’, the passer did not lose possesion but the ball did not reach the target. So, not a “bad” play per se, but not the best. If player A completes the pass and player B’s pass is intercepted and hit OOB, player A should somehow get more “credit”. I’m probably overthinking this way too much. And this is just one little situation of a hundred.
It's impossible to know if "off the defender and out of bounds" helped your team without seeing the play. Sometimes you kick it off your opponent and out of bounds (the soccer term is "out of play") on purpose. A shot off a defender that gives a corner kick should be treated differently than a shot wide that gives a goal kick.
Thanks for the discussion. I think any time Team A passes the ball and it is knocked off of a defender from Team B and out of bounds that helps Team A. Team A will have possesion (throw in or corner kick). So, to me, it is not impossible to know. What I’ve done is started tracking turnovers separately and tracking passes as having “reached target” or “not reached target”. So, a player could have a “not reached target” pass which did not result in a turnover (i.e., it bounced off a defender and went out of bounds). Turnovers will be tracked as a result of “pass”, “1v1”, “bad settle” etc. I’ve done the same with Throw Ins, they either “reach target” or “do not reach target”. This doesn’t mean that possesion was lost. The complication is on the receipt of the ball. What if the receiver or the throw in or pass was put under a bit of pressure because the pass was not “perfect”, and the receiver makes a bad settle and loses it? Or, what if the receiver doesn’t “step to” the ball and the defender gets there first? Those are some gray areas. Does the passer get dinged for a pass not reaching target or should the receiver get dinged for a bad settle?