2017 MLS Week 33 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    10/22/2017

    Atlanta United v Toronto FC
    Mercedez-Benz Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: ROBERT SIBIGA
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Jason White
    4TH: Alex Chilowicz
    VAR: Jon Freemon

    D.C. United v New York Red Bulls
    RFK Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: DAVE GANTAR
    AR1: Daniel Belleau
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Armando Villarreal
    VAR: David Barrie

    Montreal Impact v New England Revolution
    Stade Saputo (4:00PM ET)
    REF: RUBIEL VAZQUEZ
    AR1: Gianni Facchini
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Yusri Rudolf

    New York City FC v Columbus Crew
    Citi Field (4:00PM ET)
    REF: ISMAIL ELFATH
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    4TH: Sorin Stoica
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic

    Philadelphia Union v Orlando City
    Talen Energy Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: JOSEPH DICKERSON
    AR1: Kermit Quisenberry
    AR2: Claudiu Badea
    4TH: Jorge Gonzalez
    VAR: Mark Geiger

    FC Dallas v LA Galaxy
    Toyota Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: JOSE CARLOS RIVERO
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Danny Thornberry
    4TH: Marcos Deoliveira
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr

    Real Salt Lake v Sporting Kansas City
    Rio Tinto Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: RICARDO SALAZAR
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Peter Manikowski
    4TH: Younes Marrakchi
    VAR: Juan Guzman Jr

    Portland Timbers v Vancouver Whitecaps
    Providence Park (4:00PM ET)
    REF: ALLEN CHAPMAN
    AR1: Joe Fletcher
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Baldomero Toledo
    VAR: Kevin Stott

    San Jose Earthquakes v Minnesota United
    Avaya Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: HILARIO GRAJEDA
    AR1: Jonathan Johnson
    AR2: Michael Kampmeinert
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Ramy Touchan

    Seattle Sounders v Colorado Rapids
    CenturyLink Field (4:00PM ET)
    REF: CHRIS PENSO
    AR1: Mike Rottersman
    AR2: Jeremy Hanson
    4TH: Baboucarr Jallow
    VAR: Fotis Bazakos

    Houston Dynamo v Chicago Fire
    BBVA Compass Stadium (4:00PM ET)
    REF: ALAN KELLY
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Eric Weisbrod
    4TH: Ted Unkel
    VAR: Nima Saghafi
     
  2. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    With all the playoff spots clinched in the East this final set of regular season assignments sees Joseph Dickerson get his first MLS whistle between Philadelphia and Orlando.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bori getting a second trial spot after his initial performance is quite interesting and a little suspect.

    Dickerson getting that trial spot is a little surprising to me--didn't think he'd be at the top of the list--but he's a nice guy, good referee, and I hope he does well.
     
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  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dickerson is extremely surprising. He's never had a fourth official or VAR assignment in MLS as far as I am aware.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be an MLS VAR, you had to do two full live trials outside the league, so not everyone is certified (including some league veterans), but your point still stands.

    Dickerson is in that next group that PRO is looking at (I believe there are six names) so it's not out of left field in that realm; but that he is the one out of those six that get this shot is a bit surprising (and to be clear, that's not to say it isn't deserved on the merits).
     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These assignments lately smell like PRO found out about some upcoming retirements or something. They're throwing referees at the wall to see what sticks.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's just really, really uncommon for someone to get thrown right into the middle in this league. Alan Kelly was the most recent example, and that was a special case. I'd have to go back to the 90s to find the previous one, surely.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meh, I actually think the opposite. Seems like they waited until the final week to use a couple trial spots that they are obligated to use. If they were planning for retirements, you'd have seen a lot more experimentation much earlier.
     
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your theory makes more sense. The trial slots are on effectively meaningless games as usual, too.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Though the fact that, for awhile, many CRs first were traveling ARs (like Terry Vaughn) made it extra difficult to occur. Now that you bring this point up, I do wonder who the last example would be--aside from the work stoppage and foreign exchanges.
     
  11. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since I'm still missing the majority of fourth official assignments from 1996 and 1997, I may not actually be able to find the answer.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah if it's 1997 or 1996, it's sort of an irrelevant point (even if interesting from a trivia standpoint). More wondering if there is some other weird exception like Kelly between the first couple years of the league and his arrival.
     
  13. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    So does this mean that the traditional path of 4th-trialist-referee is no longer true or is it just a one off thing?
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably a one-off thing. The only rostered fourths who haven't done an MLS whistle are Jallow and Radford, right? I would just take this as a (further?) signal that PRO doesn't intend to put them in the middle.

    Maybe there is a VAR-to-CR path in the future, but I would imagine the nothing-to-whistle path is going to remain exceedingly rare.
     
  15. Thug Mentality

    May 30, 2011
    I don't believe Marrakchi, Mendez, or Terry have ever been assigned in the middle, either.
     
  16. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. Unlike Radford and Jallow, however, I believe they've all been VAR at least once. I'd have to check to be sure. It all blends together.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marrakchi has been in the middle, though.

    I had thought Terry got his shot but I must be conflating it with his many USOC assignments that involved MLS teams.

    And I just forgot about Mendez. You’re right it all blends together.
     
  18. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marrakchi's briefly been in the middle because the referee was injured mid-match, but he hasn't been assigned there thus far.
     
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  19. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Mountain View, ca
    So if it Blows up because you have everyone except for KAKA competing for a JOB, does that mean he wont be brought back???
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  20. ChelseaSounder

    Nov 5, 2009
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dempsey sent off after VAR review. Looks like a good call.

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    Sounders penalty shout. No VAR review. Looks like a clear penalty to me.

     
    JasonMa repped this.
  21. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    The VAR would've looked at it, but not deemed it to be a clear and obvious error, ergo... no VR.

    Not "VAR Review", but "VAR" (Video Assistant Referee) and "VR" (MLS parlance for "Video Review").
     
  22. ChelseaSounder

    Nov 5, 2009
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more from Seattle. Originally called a penalty and caution. Caution bumped to red after VAR.

    922216350382256130 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Think we might have another Dallas situation with the Rapids. Gatt was announced as starting in all social media, apps, etc but Serna started and Gatt subbed into the game in the 2nd.
     
  24. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    shawn12011 repped this.
  25. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    I watched that a half dozen times in tv, and still can’t see what he was sent off for. Was there a kick in the beginning that I couldn’t see? There wasn’t a lot of dissent from Acosta, and no one looked really surprised when the RC was pulled, so maybe I missed something.
     
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