2017 Coaching thread

Discussion in 'Coach' started by elessar78, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. PirateCaptain

    PirateCaptain Member

    Sevilla
    United States
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bozeman
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, it's simply the system our organization has opted for and doesn't align properly with the USSF system.

    I keep coming back to the fact that at 8 & 9 years old there simply isn't any benefit at all to using these numbers. Whether they relate to USSF or 11 v 11 or whatever the case may be, they only serve to confuse right now.
     
  2. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    With the emergence of the internet over the past 20 years, I'm able to watch training sessions from all ages from all around the world. Even pro and pro academies. Maybe it's my bias, but a lot of it doesn't conform to the prescribed methods USSF teaches (which is constantly evolving) in their licensing courses.

    Up until this year it was the 4-stage model, make it look like the game. Now it's Play-practice-play model. Anyone else feel this way? USSF licensing courses, have taught me a lot but I'm also "boots on the ground" and I see what my players lack and, from experience, get them to where they need to go. No, I don't have all answers and compared to many I'm not all that good of a coach... but still.
     
  3. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Someone I know found and saved a copy of the old C manual from around 2012. Shockingly, it had a pretty good section on the different coaching methods, when they might be applicable.

    I say shockingly because it seems to contradict what was in the E at the time and what I'm picking up is the crux of the E now.

    I'm paraphrasing this from memory :) but...

    Teaching Methods and Styles

    a. Direct Method of Teaching
    This method of coaching attempts to teach by providing the players with much of the solutions to the soccer problems. In this respect, the coach takes the information from the game and interprets it for the players. This can be described as a “coach-centered” approach.

    Young Players Need Some Direction...

    1. Players need something to emulate (TV, older players, highlights, MLS, etc.). If the player does not have this, the direct approach for some of the technical side and creative side must come into play.

    2 At the younger ages, it is probably a combination of direct coaching for technique and repetition (in the absence of emulation) with a lot of guided discovery.

    3 Repetition and direct approach for many of the kids is needed.
    -------

    It was like they were saying "look, you've suffered through the E and D and getting your kids that never watch soccer through endless variety of sharks and minnows and the gate passing game, now we're going to let you know, the next time you get a u9 team, use some choreography and shadow play and save what's left of your sanity..."
     
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  4. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I am sorry to hear that. The conventional structure for training sessions actually works very well as has been demonstrated for over 30 years that I know of. Why change what is not broken?

    This is so new that I cannot find any reference to it by USSF. Best time for technical training and for SAQ training is at the start of the session while players are fresh. Then also, hopefully, the correct techniques will be used during the following "play." So I guess the baby is thrown out with the wash water.

    Play practice play? Does "practice" refer to unopposed repetition drills? Sigh.
     
  5. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Seems to me between teaching 433 positions at the youngest levels and intentionally doing away with progressive exercises during sessions that someone is trying hard to inhibit learning.

    "Progression" is by far the most important technique for teaching. Every journey begins with the first step, not in the middle of the journey and then go back for the first step.
     
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  6. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    i look at a lot of the ussf coaching guidelines, number systems, etc., the same way i do when i'm at a CLE and some academic is at the podium trying to tell us how to run our law practices. in theory, your ideas make sense. in a perfect world, sure, i'd do things the way you suggest. however, i don't live in a perfect world where i have the same players from 6U on up through 18U, and those players are soccer robots who eat, sleep, and breathe the game. my reality is what you guys describe above. we get new players and players who'd rather tickle each other than pay attention to the coach, even if it's jose mourinho doing the talking. i'd imagine even big clubs are more similar to my small club than the ussf's "perfect world".
     
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  7. PirateCaptain

    PirateCaptain Member

    Sevilla
    United States
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bozeman
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couldn't agree more with @rca2 about progressions. Last night our players were working on dribbling and the focus is on technique then speed. Problem is, they don't yet have the footwork down. For example when doing roll overs their shoulders are working against them as their plant foot is pointed in the wrong direction. This throws off their balance and they're not able to get the push from their plant foot to propel them. We need to work with ladders (or similar) to help them master the footwork. Plus they all want to race across the field. We need them to focus on quick feet and small controlled touches.

    As for what @CoachP365 shared regarding teaching methods - yes! Let's progress to discovery but when they're 8 and just starting 7 v 7 from 4 v 4 they need to be shown a lot more than the will later. At least that's the case here because these guys watch football not soccer.
     
  8. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Is that a USSF name for whole-part-whole? Start with a scrimmage, find something to work on and work on it, finish with game to see if they got it?
     
  9. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    What I never see addressed in coaching instruction talking about coaching methods is that what method that works best for technique and for tactics is different. I also took a completely different approach to defensive tactics and attacking tactics.
     
  10. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    A friend was completing his E over the summer and asked our State DOC about the move to play-practice-play and was given the cold shoulder. We made some huge changes to coaching education at Jurgen's behest. After he left, i don't know if they are continuing with what they had under him or moving onto the next big thing.
     
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  11. PirateCaptain

    PirateCaptain Member

    Sevilla
    United States
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bozeman
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have not incorporated ladders/hoops or any other tools to help our U10's develop fast feet, balance and strength. Do you utilize any of these tools in your U10 training? If so, please share how you incorporate it into a practice and season (i.e. when is it done and for how long).

    I fully agree with what Eddie says at the 5:43 mark regarding how difficult these exercises are for younger players but how advantageous it is not to wait to develop these skills.


    I wish we were using some tools to help our players develop better footwork, balance and rhythm both before and while reinforcing dribbling techniques. Yes working with the ball is critical, but what good does it do if you don't first have the proper footwork.
     
  12. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    I heard at our district meeting that they're phasing out the F/E/D, and going to 4v4/7v7/9v9 modules like the United Soccer Coaches(the artists formerly known as NSCAA).
     
  13. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I took the E early this year. What was planned then, was to change the curriculum for the E and D courses so that you could elect one of 3 paths through the licenses (4v4, 7v7, 11v11). This information was in an email I received from USSF in the Spring. The current setup for E was focused on U12 (9v9). But there was another more subtle progression. E tested the coaches ability to train players on the ball. D was focused on training a line of players. C was focused on training a side. This information about the D and C courses came from my E course instructor.

    I thought that the planned 3 pathways was a lot more practical because courses could relate the course to their actual coaching circumstances.
     
  14. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yet another shift. How long will this one live?? Is it really an improvement?
     
  15. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    On a happy note, just found out one girl from the very first team I coached at u9 was just offered a scholarship to play at U of Akron.
     
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  16. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Grats. Last I read, only 4% of High School kids go on to play college. I sometimes wonder if any of my players did.
     
  17. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    @PirateCaptain There are some good books on SAQ training and athletic development. I like Human Kinetics publications. Examples of foot drills I have seen include ladder, line, and disc drills.

    Generally speaking during early years the suggestion is to work on movement technique. In other words proper technique is stressed, not elapsed time.

    In the past kids games improved agility, like jump rope. Schools don't have recess any more. Kids don't play classic kids games either.
     
  18. PirateCaptain

    PirateCaptain Member

    Sevilla
    United States
    Oct 6, 2016
    Bozeman
    Club:
    Sevilla FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By "when is it done and for how long?" I meant, do you do it early in the season and move on to on the ball work exclusively at some point, or do you continue to incorporate these things throughout your season?

    Thankful my kids attend a school with recess still intact. Elementary kids need to blow off steam.
     
  19. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    The is no one way to train a team. With novice or youth players you don't do individual training plans. So you do one training plan that will benefit everyone. (Because novices will benefit from just about any training.) Essentially you observe and judge where you team is soccer age wise and then set goals for your season. Your training plan gets the team to the season goals.

    If it were me, I would follow the common practice of working on running technique in dynamic stretches during warm up. In addition at the beginning of the season I would spend some time at the end of warm up on acceleration technique and some fast feet agility drills. Both these techniques will be used in off the ball movements and dribbling during the entire season. So I would phase them out early as separate training and address these techniques with others as needed in feedback during the course of the season. You could also cover jumping, stopping and turning the same way. I didn't address them separately. (I coached 25 years ago and the kids had pretty good general athletic movement skills.)

    I always say dribbling is 50% athletic skill and 50% ball skill. In dribbling and off-the-ball play players get a lot of general athletic movement practice. So as long as their technique is good, there isn't a need for separate training.

    I don't see the point of doing strength training, speed training or separate endurance training before hormonal changes. Before then my priority is 1 mentality, 2 techniques and 3 individual and group tactics. I cover the physical aspect as a minor objective during the SSGs.

    Hope that helped rather than confused.
     
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  20. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    one of our 11U travel coaches uses ladders. i personally do not do any of this because my "academy" sessions are with mostly beginners. i'd rather work on soccer-specific skills in the time i have them once each week.

    i haven't given this much thought or thought about implementing it club-wide (i am the defacto DOC/technical director). i need to look into it more and educate myself. your video will be a start. a confession: i've rolled my eyes more than a few times when i've seen our coach running the 11Us through his ladders. it's not that i'm against it. it just looks like they spend soooo much time on it when they could be working on soccer-specific skills they need. perhaps introducing these types of things as part of a warm-up is the answer?

    i think that the new pathway makes more sense as well... in theory. the devil is in the implementation.
     
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  21. SOSsocerpoppa

    SOSsocerpoppa New Member

    Cholos
    Mexico
    Aug 3, 2017
    #396 SOSsocerpoppa, Sep 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
    Thanks for your concern.
    I have chosen not to talk about it here anymore, good luck to you!
     
  22. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Honduras
    I travel tomorrow for my second LCSL U19s league game of the fall season. We're 1-0, beating a pretty good team 6-3. I've been informed that a scout will come watch my team play Sunday during a friendly. Should be fun to see who he actually identifies. One of my players just came back from Turkey trailing with a couple first division clubs. My other midfielder just received his 6th college offer. And I've probably turned over the squad like 5 times by now. Seemingly new faces each week.

    On a cooler note I've been offered to take over a Semi Pro club buttt for now my hands are full with preseason High School footy already in full swing.
     
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  23. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    after watching the video, i like what he's doing. the ball work is all stuff that i've done with my more advanced teams in past seasons. i just haven't used the ladders, etc. beforehand to teach them how to have fast feet. i think you could easily incorporate that into a warmup to introduce your players to the concept and then rotate the exercises you do throughout the season to keep it fresh. just spend a few minutes each training session with your ladders or whatever you use and then move on to some of the ball work he had her doing.

    i think i'll see if i can find a couple ladders to incorporate it into my sessions. we may have some in the shed. i'll throw something new at my players next week and let you guys know how it goes.
     
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  24. Peter Rival

    Peter Rival Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    His ladder work is a lot like what I do with my keepers (when I can get the time to). It's easier in a way to do ladder work with keepers because we can incorporate ball time with the ladder almost right away with balls into the hands. Changing up the patterns of movement is also great for keepers as they are called on to make saves at all angles and frequently as they're moving in different directions - getting them to move hands in one direction and feet in another is a critical skill IMO. I've also found that it tends to improve their jumping ability a little as the ladder is done on the balls of your feet which strengthens the calves.

    I'm also a big proponent of training under distraction frequently (but certainly not exclusively) and ladders can provide that in a way as well as now it's not just player-and-ball. It's part of improving decision making under pressure. We're seeing this more and more in other sports, and players like Steph Curry in the NBA have highlighted how it can improve their focus when it comes to game time.

    I'm curious how many are able to use tools like this in full-team (vs. 1-on-1) practices as I'm always concerned about time spent without the ball. Perhaps if you have enough ladders or can break groups up into small enough numbers you can make this part of the training without it taking too long. Me, I have ~20 kids and one ladder - that's a bit of a challenge.
     
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  25. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I never had more than 17 at one time, but liked to have assistants to help watch them while breaking them down into 2 or 3 groups. Even in a large sided game, having an assistant is a big help.

    I haven't worked with ladder drills, but it is fairly simple to work in short exercises like this. Think of it as circuit training. Say you are running 4v4 SSGs with a side of 4 (or fewer) out resting. Have a station set up with the chosen exercise and have the resting players use it. It turns the rest into active rest. Juggling and ball mastery exercises fit well. At the beginning of the season I start looking for about 1 work to 2 rest ratio during drills and gradually move toward 1 work to 1 rest as fitness levels improve. So I don't look at the number of reps so much as I look for recovery. That invariably means some players are more active during the rest than others. They self regulate and I just watched to stop excesses (too little or too much).

    Keeping in mind circuit training, you can pair a high intensity exercise like 1v1 with a lower intensity exercise like dribble a maze of cones or an unopposed passing exercise. Groups of 4 players switching off.
     

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