News: Revolution Fire Jay Heaps

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Mike Marshall, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Good message to send to the players and the fans - FINALLY.

    Now it will be interesting:
    Revs have a perceived "poor" reputation amongst players and agents + the black cloud of cheapness and no ambition.

    What coach is going to come in and challenge that? Tato Martino would have quit after 2 weeks.

    They need a strong leader with the pedigree to demand change.

    So the hiring of the new coach will say a lot if this organization has finally woken up, or if they are just making a move to get out of the immediate negative spotlight and go back to flying under the radar.

    And, on the off-chance, they eff up the next hire - DO NOT WAIT 6 Years! Admit your mistake and move on quickly.

    To Rkupp's points above: although they have some good players, they do not have really have the right mix of players(leaders/studs) and pipeline (youth and transfer) - they are not a window ahead - they are a year behind and always reactionary. How much of that was Heaps' NOT making waves that he needed changes vs the organization....

    Finally - what will happen with the current guys after this season. Lee supposedly on a free after the season.

    Can't wait to hear how Brad and Paul open the game commentary on Saturday.

    Welcome back!
     
  2. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Of those points that you list of 'don't have' how many are Heaps' fault and how many are Burns' or organizations' fault?
     
  3. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Also, wonder what happens with Heaps Pro License - he was right in the middle of it. And from a previous post of mine that stated how much time it consumed for Pareja - I do wonder how much of that work "distracted" Heaps this season
     
  4. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Dunseth lists who he's heard is in the running for the gig

    909968906147598336 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  5. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I've been too discouraged/depressed (only about the Revs!) to come here.

    Finally, an opportunity for change. But, will they repeat the same overly-conservative mistakes they've made with coaching choices for 10+ years?
    Most are organizational, IMO. But, regardless, I think a Revs coach can/should do much better with this roster - and that's all on Heaps.

    One of the saddest things for me is the un-repairable damage that been done to Herivaux through their neglect. These critical years for him have been squandered. And he's been our ONLY young prospect in the pipleline ... :eek:
     
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  6. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    From a reply, someone mentions Wynalda - Dunseth agrees but thought the OrangeCounty job was his??
     
  7. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    And also my initial reaction:
    Interesting: Savarese, Harkes (he did a good job in Cincy), and if a possibility, Wynalda
    NO: Andrulis, Friedel, Meola
    Not sure: Noonan and Ralston - seem to both be great #2 men
    Love him but have seen this movie before: Shalrie
     
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  8. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Interesting to me if they bring in someone who has the cachet and power to take on the front office. Another 'first time head coach' is NOT that person, it needs to be someone with a track record of getting things done and can tell Burns and Biello to blow it out their ears when they make stupid decisions. Not sure that Burns/Biello have the guts to do that. No one on that list is that person. Why not Kinnear?
     
  11. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/soccer/2017/09/jay_heaps_out_as_coach_of_revolution
    "his decision has not been taken lightly, however, we need to do better than the results have shown from the last couple of seasons and this season left us convinced we needed to go in a different direction.” - Mike Burns
    So it took them until Sep to figure out what everyone else already knew. How can this man be in charge or anything? Chances are he gets promoted for firing Jay
     
  12. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    #37 metoo, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    Hmm, I feel like this is a bit too soon, I think Heaps had the team poised to really take off any day now.

    Seriously though, I wrote a comment earlier this season about how the organization had lost me, how games weren't appointment viewing for me any longer - I used to watch every game, at least on DVR, since I often have conflicts, but I now haven't watched a game in a month or 2 - and I'd even lost interest in following as much news about the team or coming here to chat about them. Well, like everybody else who felt the same, we're watching, interested to see what kind of turn the team wants to make. Will they show they want to take the league seriously, or will they hire another cheap head coach who is not close to being fit to coach in the league?

    As I've said before, in terms of talent, while I don't think the Revs would be a top team in the league, I don't think their top 12-15 was nearly as bad as the results the team has gotten. I've seen that some seem to think Heaps didn't have enough talent to compete, and I think that's bull crap. I believe a quality coach could have gotten this same squad into the playoff places relatively easily.

    As for Burns, I still wonder how much he really has to do with the direction of the team. I've said this before, it's not a "defense" of Burns, who is now everybody's number one target, but more of a question about what is he really responsible for, and how much he really can do. I did come on here a few months ago, and someone had posted a link to an interview with Bilelllo done by some blog or something (I have no idea where I saw it here, but someone might remember it), and when it came to talking about building the squad, it seemed like el presidente said that the head coach was the one responsible for finding his own players, and as the GM, it sounded like Burns was just responsible for signing the people who were identified. I don't know if that is correct, and I don't know how much talk that got here, as I just happened to see it when I did an occasional drop in, but if that is in fact the case, what really does he do, and what are his responsibilities? From what I recall, the impression I got was that perhaps the player acquisition model was more like how English clubs have traditionally done things, where the manager does all of that, rather than what they call a more European/continental model of having a sporting director or something like that.

    One thing I do know, if the impression I got from that interview is in fact accurate, that makes the hiring of Heaps was even dumber than we first would have thought. Not only was he someone with no experience coaching a team on the field, but he also had no experience, and likely few if any contacts when it comes to searching for players (like the ones someone like Nicol would have had just from his slightly more auspicious playing career), or asking for opinions about having seen someone play, in the truly world wide talent market that exists in this game. And who knows if we'll ever find out, but I would love to know who is the one who was ultimately responsible for picking Heaps - Burns, Bilello, or the Krafts.

    But either way, I don't know that firing Burns would make a big difference. I obviously can't say for sure, since the inner workings of Kraft's teams is so obscure, but I don't think Burns is responsible for:
    - deciding that the team doesn't need scouts
    - deciding that Heaps was the best candidate that could be found in the entire world, there was no need to look outside Foxboro for someone who might cost even a little bit more
    - that the team doesn't need true DP's to be successful, well, other than that one true DP the team had that drove the team on to an MLS Cup appearance.
    Until the people in charge decide to change the organizational philosophy that comes down from the top - which seems to be something along the lines of 'what's the cheapest way we do this' rather than what do we need to spend to get the biggest return on the outlay - unless the person they hire ends up being akin to hitting the lottery on a single $1 ticket, changing personnel will only make marginal differences. Although on the lottery analogy, when it comes to hiring folks to run things, I guess you could say that the Krafts have already bought a number of $1 lottery tickets, so perhaps shouldn't say "on a single" such ticket, but rather finally hitting the lottery after buying only handful of tickets over the years.
     
  13. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Should have posted this in this thread.

     
  14. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going with the above post, here's what I noted on FB. Best of luck to him.

    Burns still has to go.
     
  15. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    I don't want to see them rush to name a successor. Soehn is fine for the remainder of the campaign — I like that decision.

    Agree with a previous poster about first-time managers: no thanks! Unless more changes are to come (Burns out, etc.), the Revs need an manager with the clout to walk if he is not given the proper resources, not someone who will be grateful for the opportunity no matter what.
     
  16. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    #41 metoo, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
    Following up on my previous post, I found the link to the Bilello interview in the thread State of the Revs, along with someone's summation of what I was referencing, which I put below. Again, my only point in mentioning this is not to say I think Burns is great, but it's to try to pinpoint the exact problems in the operation, rather than just letting off steam and saying 'yeah they all suck, fire them all' and then the team brings in people who will do the same things, due to being part of a poorly built or incomplete organizational structure. Does Burns have much say in building the squad that the coach gets, a Danny Ainge type GM for example, which seems like the general impression people have, or is his title maybe just a way of getting promoted without getting a raise, and his role is more like that of the person with that Pats who is responsible for doing the contracts for whomever Belichick wants?

     
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  17. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Link?
     
  18. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Wow. Some NNN hacked rkupp's account.
     
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  20. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  21. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I don't think he's necessarily been irreparably damaged, his development may have been hurt, or maybe he wouldn't have been up to making the step to the next level, no matter who was in charge. The kid is not over the hill yet, there's still a chance for him to make it.

    If he really is up to it, he's still young enough to become somebody. But it's also possible he doesn't have enough to become the player we'd hoped he'd become, many a promising youth player is not able to make the next step, it's the nature of the business. Believe me, I've wanted Heaps gone as much as anybody, but that doesn't mean I think that, if the kid doesn't end up making it, we can just assume Herivaux would have been great, or even good, if not for Heaps.

    Plus, is it the fault of Heaps that we don't have a 2nd team, like other MLS clubs have, where younger players can get game time, or was it who decided we wouldn't use our relationship with Rochester more, or that we can't farm people out because we need the bodies for practice because we don't keep a full roster? (unless I missed something, I'm assuming nothing much has changed there since I stopped paying close attention a few months ago)
     
  22. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Weak, weak sauce from Matt Doyle! Don't sugar coat Heaps' ineptitude. He was out of his element from Day One here, and the only thing that masked it was winning the Jermaine Jones coin flip. They should have fired him at the end of last year. And that part about Heaps being in the Revs' "ring of honor" (which BTW will never happen) is laughable. As a player, he was solid, but average. He got one "courtesy cap" for the Nats and got completely embarassed. As a coach, he was by and large, a failure. Not many managers stick around long enough to lose 83 games for the same club.

    That said, as a person, I always found him to be a stand-up guy, someone who was always willing to talk, and a decent person overall. I wish him all the best in his next move, whether somewhere else in the game or outside.
     
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  23. BERich

    BERich Member+

    Feb 3, 2012
    New England
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They just fixed (hopefully) the short term problem, the above quotes are the long term problem of the organization
     
  24. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I'll disagree with this: it's not black/white, Heaps, like most, was good at some elements of the job and bad, or not so good, at others.

    I think it's become pretty apparent, actually blatantly obvious, that he doesn't have solutions to protecting leads, maintaining composure, preventing defensive breakdowns, breaking down packed-in defenses. I don't think it makes him inept (lots of coaches struggle to find solutions for many of those things), but I think he'd taken the club as far as he could, and once his limitations were fully exposed, the team has been backsliding.

    He improved the team steadily for several consecutive years, but now we've clearly lost most of that progress.
     
  25. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glad to see you back! I missed not having a contrary voice in what had become an echo-chember of misery!

    Anyway, most of what you mention, the things Heaps was not particularly good at, are the basic fundamentals of the job. What then, is he good at? Being the firey guy who can motivate players? Sure, but that only works for so long. You can see that he had "lost" the team, and if that's your one-trick pony, when it stops working, there isn't much else to fall back on.

    The roster was much more talented than their league position indicates. While they aren't an "elite" team like Toronto, they should be in that second tier, based on their talent. Unfortunately, the coach was not able to get that talent on the same page.

    Let's just hope the new coach is better at that.
     
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