Forth Eorlingas - Stoke City v. The Arsenal, Saturday, August 19 2017 1730 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Problem is a lack of width but this is similar to biesla style which I liked at Bilbao
     
  2. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For sure, but given the low release clause, we either don't rate Seri, he wanted to go elsewhere, or he wants to stay at Nice. The sheer number of links to other clubs linked mean the last option is out.

    Arsenal have been linked a lot, as well.
     
  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This formation requires playing Welbeck at wingback. I'd rather see something like:


    Lacazette
    Welbeck (if Alexis leaves) - Ozil
    Seri (or someone else) - Xhaka
    Kolasinac - Bellerin
    Koscielny - Mertesacker - Mustafi

    Wingback alternatives: Monreal, Ox
    CB alternatives: Monreal, Holding, Chambers

    Midfield alternatives: Ramsey, Elneny, Coquelin
    Forward alternatives: Iwobi, Walcott, Giroud
     
  4. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be onboard with that, except I would prefer to see Alexis replaced with a new player (Draxler???) and Welbeck as a bench/spot starter.
     
  5. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Totally valid, but the biggest issues at Arsenal are: spacing in midfield, and the link between midfield and attack. Signing someone like Seri (or really anyone who can play the role Cazorla did), fixes both of these problems. Whether we're playing a back three or a back four is less important than midfield spacing and linkup.
     
  6. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My response was simple and to point. I don't get how it was that of a child.

    Lol you Simply recited Arsenal.com verbatim.
    I get that you don't like wenger but get some perspective on how Arsenal has become an international brand. Without wenger coming in mid 90s this team could have been Everton or villa of past 20 years
     
  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You damn right I did... you know why? Because that is the club where his influence was felt and they felt the need to honor that.

    Without Chapman coming in when he did, this club coulda been Wimbledon or Charlton.

    You are arguing to argue at this point, cruh.
     
  8. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trying to understand you
    I think I get it


    You once heard of chapman ... an obscure manager from 80 yrs ago and posted that he was the most important manager at Arsenal ( just to throw shade on my post while wenger is not the most popular figure around Arsenal parts these days). ... then went to Arsenal.com archives for a grandstanding historical snippet to somehow validate your faint reference/point


    Well done
     
  9. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I get you too cruh, football started in 1996, and you don't care about anything before that. Congrats.
     
  10. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    of course not....some of my best football memories are from late 80's and early 90s ... but when we are talking about Arsenal ... you must concede that the most prolific period in Arsenal history is from 96 to 2016
     
  11. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    no, 1) ramsey - like wilshere - is just not good enough at the various bits to be that type of dedicated attacker and 2) what he IS good at, as prince mentioned, is arriving late as the extra man which playing as a dedicated attacker negates.
     
  12. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    or, y'know, waiting for him to become more expensive in order to pay THAT instead. in the usual wenger fashion.

    or, well, equally wengerish: become TOO expensive and then NOT pay that. complete with, "we knew about him, you know" of course.
     
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  13. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    man, swap welbeck out for iwobi and we're shiny. i like welbeck and all but, to paraphrase denny green, he is exactly who we think he is. iwobi . . . dude has insane ceiling. he's possibly one of the few players out of our youth setup who has the footballing intelligence to go with his physical and technical skillset.

    in fact, oxlade-chamberlain can fuck off, too. i'd be just fine with maitland-niles backing up kolasinac/bellerin outside.

    problem with koscielny+mertesacker setup you mentioned is wenger wants the central centreback back deep as the catch all with the 2 wides pushing up. koscielny is capable of pushing up - and, in fact, ridiculously good at it in my opinion - but i have noticed that he does not care for it. not to mention that he probably has the best anticipation AND recovery of our centrebacks and is, thus, best as that central centreback (in wenger's scheme). and mertesacker is definitely not capable of playing outside. it's going to be monreal, holding (which won't happen now because he's had A BAD GAME and, thus, will now be chambers Mk2), or kolasinac (if oxlade-chamberlain stays).
     
  14. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think wenger saw seri to be too much like el nenny...
    Again he looks for exceptional talent but sometimes you just need for an upgrade ... he is too in love with certain players
     
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  15. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    the word is prolific now? You said Wenger has done more. Chapman is the reason for the white sleeves.
    IDK at this point. Its tough to even care anymore because he has effectively turned this club into his own fifedom.
     
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  16. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    like, i still love the damn club and i like the players we have a whole hell of a lot so i'll certainly still watch it. but it's damn hard to have much emotion either way because you already know wenger gonna wenger.
     
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  17. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean from '96 to 2006. Wenger has done shite all for 10-12 years now. And again, I'm fairly certain previous managers have won more championships per seasons managed than Wenger, thus a better return. Those numbers might be different had Wenger left a while ago.

    Look I'm not going to wholeheartedly disagree with you here, but I do think he has managed to garner a sort of cult of personality about him that really colors the way people view his supposed greatness. He's definitely one of the best we've had for sure. But he also hasn't done squat except commit the same mistakes over and over and over the last decade.

    I don't understand why 10 years of success suddenly allows for people to gloss over his consistent failures and act like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's one of the best we've had but the dude needs to go as he's doing nothing but tarnishing his legacy.
     
  18. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  19. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Spot on, I mean honestly, it's so damn ridiculous how often this happens with him.
     
  20. Aaron d

    Aaron d Member+

    May 15, 2005
    Wooster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is such a great point. Since Chapman, Arsenal have pretty much been one of the better teams in the history of English football. Without him, who knows where we'd be. His foundation helped create the Arsenal we all love.

    However,

    The argument is never going to be resolved. It's the chicken/egg argument. Take away either manager's hiring and the club is likely not where it is today. The biggest issue today, is how Arsene might leave the club in a position to be worse off which would be terrible for his legacy.
     
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  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The trouble is any sensible structure always comes back to needing at least one elite, proper central midfielder and highlights the lack of a right winger

    So there dies the dream :ROFLMAO:
     
  22. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Re formations, Arsene has set the team up almost almost exactly the same way Pep has set up Man City. Pep plays a 3-5-2' with the midfield triangle point behind, i.e., Fernandinho as the holding midfielder, with de Bruyne and one of the Silvas in front of him. De Bruyne and both Silvas are primarily attacking players.

    A quick look at Ozil's heat maps shows he has been playing behind Welbeck and Lacazette. So Arsenal's formation is also essentially a 3-5-2 with Ozil as the CAM, Ramsey as the box to box player, a role he is probably better suited for than De Bruyne or the Silvas (there skill sets more nearly match Ozil's), and Xhaka as the holding midfielder.

    It should also be noted that Jose bought Matic so he could allow Pogba to rampage forward. So while Ramsey isn't Pogba, Arsenal's real problem is that Xhaka isn't Fernandinho or Matic. Now maybe Arsene should recognize this and set the team up more conservatively, but that's never been in his blood. Do we really want an Arsenal team that plays like United did last year?
     
  23. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Ramsey to be freed up to attack when he is infamous for sideways and back passing? Really? Atleast Pogba used to swarm up and show some attacking intent. If we remain stuck in Ramsey's 2012/13 season, we're no different from AW.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I agree re Ozil, playing more behind the 2, but he can also drift wide and get into the channels. That is his best position.

    The thing about the 6+6 / 6+8 is that they need a certain skill set between them - and this is why I keep going back to the Rene Maric article about all Wenger's failed attempts to get Wilshere, Ramsey etc to work.

    Xhaka is clearly the guy to run the game from the base of midfield - but he is not fast or that dynamic so he needs to have positional discipline.

    That means the 8 will need to be a very good two way player who binds the midfield - like Marchisio

    It is really this player who will organise the midfield, especially defensively.

    Ramsey is a poor option because while he has the engine and the forward runs, he lacks the entire defensive and positional set as well as short game,

    Sami Khedira without the nouse.

    The other thing when you look at peak Gundogan - is he has offensive carries and are key to final 3rd entries. Wilshere actually has this "good spike" in @cr7torossi parlance. But like Ramsey, he seems not to have learned how to play football properly.

    So all of this key shit is missing.

    Therefore your point about Matic is a good one. The 8 needs to have the Matic stuff or better yet to an elite level like Marchisio

    Instead we have Xhaka + Coq :ROFLMAO:
     
  25. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    Pogba comparisons are moot - even last season, he had the highest xG and the highest xA (ahead of Fabregas) of any midfielder in the league. While being in the top5/10 in defensive interceptions and tackles.

    His and United's poor finishing along with the media desire to spin a "flop" narrative has created this sentiment that Matic is freeing him up.

    He is and was expected to have a high G+A season purely on variance.
     

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