The assignments for Week 23 of the 2017 MLS season: 08/12/2017 Seattle Sounders v Sporting Kansas City CenturyLink Field (4:00PM ET) REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO AR1: Eduardo Mariscal AR2: Anthony Vasoli 4TH: Henrik Karlsson VAR: Allen Chapman Toronto FC v Portland Timbers BMO Field (6:00PM ET) REF: KEVIN STOTT AR1: Joe Fletcher AR2: Brian Poeschel 4TH: Sorin Stoica VAR: Silviu Petrescu D.C. United v Real Salt Lake RFK Stadium (7:00PM ET) REF: DREW FISCHER AR1: Gianni Facchini AR2: Phil Briere 4TH: Nima Saghafi VAR: Luis Guardia Columbus Crew v Chicago Fire MAPFRE Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: ARMANDO VILLARREAL AR1: Corey Parker AR2: Kevin Klinger 4TH: Younes Marrakchi VAR: Hilario Grajeda New York Red Bulls v Orlando City Red Bull Arena (7:30PM ET) REF: JORGE GONZALEZ AR1: Eric Weisbrod AR2: Daniel Belleau 4TH: Marcos DeOliveira VAR: Guido Gonzales Jr FC Dallas v Colorado Rapids Toyota Stadium (8:00PM ET) REF: ALAN KELLY AR1: Corey Rockwell AR2: Apolinar Mariscal 4TH: Daniel Radford VAR: Dave Gantar New England Revolution v Vancouver Whitecaps Gillette Stadium (8:00PM ET) REF: ISMAIL ELFATH AR1: Kermit Quisenberry AR2: Nick Uranga 4TH: Jonathan Seiner VAR: Kevin Terry Jr Philadelphia Union v Montreal Impact Taken Energy Stadium (8:00PM ET) REF: RUBIEL VAZQUEZ AR1: Frank Anderson AR2: Adam Wienckowski 4TH: Jose Carlos Rivero VAR: Mark Geiger Houston Dynamo v San Jose Earthquakes BBVA Compass Stadium (9:00PM) REF: RICARDO SALAZAR AR1: Jeffrey Greeson AR2: Felisha Mariscal 4TH: Baboucarr Jallow VAR: Juan Guzman LA Galaxy v New York City StubHub Center (10:30PM ET) REF: ROBERT SIBIGA AR1: Jeremy Hanson AR2: Jonathan Johnson 4TH: Alejandro Mariscal VAR: Timothy Ford http://proreferees.com/2017/08/08/mls-assignments-week-23/
"Seiner" should be Weiner in New England. He and Karlsson are getting their first MLS 4ths, after Gonzales Jr. had one a couple weeks ago. That's pretty interesting as we look toward promotion next year because neither Karlsson nor Weiner are in the top two tiers of the development groups that PRO has established (Gonzales Jr. is, as are some of the other new VARs you have seen and will see). So not sure what that tells us, if anything.* Guardia is the only VAR with no MLS experience (though Ford's experience started last week and Gonzales Jr.'s was the aforementioned single fourth official role). You'll see several more names rotate into the VAR role in the coming weeks, as there is an established pool of non-PRO VARs who have done enough trial runs to be invited in. Not sure you'll see any new 4ths, though, as I believe some of these assignments have been out of necessity with the international friendlies and personal travel. *EDIT: long story short, but there was a scheduling bind because all matches are on a Saturday this week and no one could double-up (plus you had pre-approved vacations). After some negotiation, PSRA and PRO agreed to let two "guest" 4ths work, for lack of a better term, so long as those guests are on the approved VAR list, which includes both Karlsson and Weiner.
No. In fact I'd argue quite the opposite. PRO has been slow-walking the hiring of new CRs, ARs and 4ths. Look at the pool over the last 5 years--the amount of people being promoted, trialed and hired doesn't match the need given expansion (and now VAR), particularly when you factor in retirements. PRO appears to be finally trying to address that with more formalized development tiers below the MLS level. But because of that slow-walking to date, the pool of 4ths is very small (there are officially 11 right now, but one is injured and several others are never going to become referees and a couple are effectively working as referees already). When you take into account expansion, recent international friendlies, personal vacations, all matches being on one day (this week) and yes, now VAR, PRO finally has to deal with the fact that they've been slow-walking the promotion process. I think this week is the canary in the coal mine finally showing itself to the public. PRO has trained many of its CRs and 4ths in the role of VAR but it has also trained 15 non-PRO members who are approved to work MLS in a VAR capacity now. In order to fill some gaps this week, an agreement was made to use a couple of those trained VARs as 4ths. It's not "fast-tracking" anyone both because it's just a stop-gap for this week and these individuals are trained for what is--almost certainly unarguably--a more consequential role in MLS already.
So what happens if one of these VAR qualified only 4th officials have to fill in as CR during a game due to injury to CR or whatnot? Is it going to be kosher according to PRO rules or will VAR (assuming it's a PRO qualified CR) take CR and 4th official goes to be VAR?
Given the logistics involved I'm almost certain the 4th would replace the CR. It wouldn't be much different (more high-profile, but probably less of an actual problem) than the two recent instances where 4ths have had to serve as ARs.
This has been interesting to watch, and will continue to be. With the institution of VAR's, we have effectively created an immediate increase of demand for referees. Historically, lots of people have gone AR track because referee track was so saturated and competitive. Do you think we will start to see any significantly lower supply of AR's as more people get to continue in referee tracks where there was previously fewer spots and more competition?
Apparently an interesting VAR at the end of the first half in Dal-Col. Dallas goal waived off after reviewing the play and calling Dallas for a foul on the other end that started the Dallas attack (I was listening on the radio so no idea on the validity of the call). Even Rapids fans are saying that its a bit ridiculous that VAR can go back that far.
Watched the highlight, and it was textbook VAR for me. Exactly the beginning of the attacking phase of play for Dallas was that foul.
Saw the highlight during the lightning delay and I agree. Based on VAR rules that was by the book. And it was only 10 seconds between the foul and the goal.
https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-08-12-fc-dallas-vs-colorado-rapids Here's my only problem. If that's "clear and obvious" to deny a goal, the same standard has to apply to penalties. And I'm not sure it does or will. We'll see. I guess my second problem, if I'm being honest, is that if possession had shifted just once, this wouldn't be reviewable. And though that is 100% consistent with protocols, as a neutral fan that seems unfair to me. Either this foul was consequential or it wasn't. But again, that's not a complaint grounded in refereeing or VAR protocols.
Just had a red reverted to a yellow in Houston-SJ. Correctly I believe under the new rules about penalties and red cards.
it will be interesting to see if this red card gets overturned on appeal After Video Review, a red card is shown to Kaka of Orlando City SC for violent conduct. #NYvORL https://t.co/eoyP2CckxJ— Major League Soccer (@MLS) August 13, 2017 what's also interesting is that Gonzales issues two cautions after video review. Is that reviewable? and by the way before the pitch turned into a lake in DC I did note that there is a VAR monitor on each endline at RFK.
That was an interesting play. Certainly it was a trip but the ball was nowhere close by the time he hacked the guy down, so in the world of making a play for the ball I think that's hard to argue.
Once VR is correctly triggered for one of the four reasons, all misconduct seen during review can be dealt with. So yes. Now, that's another problem I have with VR. A VAR can say "hey I think you missed a red" and you can get a bunch of yellows. But no VAR can say "hey I think you missed a bunch of yellows." But that's systematic and not on the officials.
Agreed, looks like it was a deliberate trip and not any attempt to play the ball. Not all that dissimilar to Brad Evans red card earlier this season.
I am sure that PRO and MLS are very happy that week 1 of VR was not swapped with Week 2. Week 1 was about as clean as you can get from a neutral fan perspective. Week 2, not as much, even if everything has been done correctly (and I think it pretty much has been).
To be clear, this wasn't from the VAR. Gutsy calm from the AR but I think it's correct. And well-handled by Salazar. https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-08-12-houston-dynamo-vs-san-jose-earthquakes
I think this is the first mistake with VR. Not sure how this isn't clearly and obviously in the penalty area. I'm guessing, of course, but the only explanation I can offer is Elfath didn't wait for the angle from the goal line that shows contact started when the Revs player had both feet completely within the penalty area, because the other angles are more dubious. https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/m...-england-revolution-vs-vancouver-whitecaps-fc
Have had the pleasure of working a few adult matches with Karlsson when he first moved to the States. By far, the best I've ever worked with. He officiated at a high level in Sweden and moved here for job reasons. The USL is beneath him. He was misused first as an AR. He will do great in MLS one day...if PRO gives him a chance. Credit to Collin for trying to get Gonzalez to overturn it. I can't blame Jorge however, since even Collin's own teammate thinks he's being attacked by Kaka. Even if it was "horseplay" between two ex-teammates that went overboard, he doesn't know this and has to go by what he sees.
I think by the VAR protocols they got the play right, but, as you said, if this was in the penalty area are they giving it? Take the Portland PK shout byAdi last week. If that was a defender that got fouled and it led to a goal on the other end, I think it gets reviewed and overturned. It seems VAR is designed to lean towards the defense and do everything it can to find reasons to disallow goals, but it has to be "even more obvious" to award penalties.
this was the argument Paul Gardner made in his recent column on VAR - that it seems designed to eliminate more goals
I've made a lot of arguments against VR and, even with the good aspects of it, I've got some issues with the parameters and protocols. But I've never really thought about this. And it's correct. The only time VR will help add to scoring is when clearly and obviously missed penalties are awarded. And we've seen, across many competitons this past year, that said standard is extraordinarily high (with a few outliers). In other sports there is drama when we wait to see if a score can be awarded. In the NFL, for example, we see a lot of reviews that can actually lead to putting points on the board. In soccer that can never happen directly (sole exception would be a goal line decision that wasn't awarded, but completions with GLT will render that option impossible). That's weird.