Fire Bruce Arena!

Discussion in 'LA Galaxy' started by AmericanKaka, Mar 15, 2012.

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  1. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more this saga progresses, the more convinced I am that the Gerrard signing was forced on Bruce and he has performed a small miracle making the most of it. While I can believe that Bruce really does admire and respect Gerrard, nothing he's done as a manager since I've followed him shows that he's prone to letting his personal admiration for a player impact his decision-making or that he'd bank so much on what was ultimately a very risky signing. Even if Arena personally nods off every night to dreams of Gerrard hoisting an MLS Cup, it seems very out of character for his to toss all his eggs in one basket.

    Of course, if true, replacing Arena is the least of our problems. How long is he going to want to work with his hands tied? Who's going to replace him that will do as well with the mandates to sign big names that the FO is handing down?
     
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  2. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #902 skydog, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
    Bruce has a long history of having blind spots when it comes to vets that he is for some reason fond of. These are players who 90% of the fans think shouldn't be near the field but somehow keep getting starts from Bruce.

    One of the first was "Ankle-biter" Richie Williams - his repeated selection drove US fans crazy for years . In '02 it was Agoos that most of the US Nat fans disliked but Bruce appeared to love. In the last year or so before the WC Agoos had become even slower (which was thought to be impossible) and more mistake prone which showed up repeatedly in WC qualifying. But Bruce saw it different than both the fans and the press at the time and he was going to play Jeff no matter how much he sucked in qualifying. Agoos rewarded Bruce's faith in him by scoring an own goal in the WC opening game. Only a very friendly post in the S. Korea game (and some believe Agoos' injury that kept him off the field for later WC games) saved us from going out in the first round due to Agoos' own goal.

    In '06 Bruce upped the vet ante and built a whole team around formerly good vets even when they were out of form and not having good years for their club or country - players like Pope, Convey, Olsen, and Ching (and probably Albright belongs in this group). Players the fans and press agreed shouldn't be going to Germany. And boy were the fans right. Pope, like Agoos before him, gave up an easy goal in the first game of the WC. Only this time we couldn't recover.

    Then for LAG we've seen Bruce start his non-fan favorites like Passback Pete, Chris Klein when he could barely jog, Kirovski for 40+ games despite his suckitude. And then there was Lopes for a season. And lets not forget Leo. Ok, maybe we should forget Leo.

    And as far as head scratching signings of clearly over the hill vets Bruce's list is long: Clint Mathis, Sanneh, Angel, Hejduk, Buddle 2nd go around in 2012 (3 goals in 19 games), Noonan, Mastroeni, Buddle yet a third time (0 goals, 12 games), Ricketts 2nd go around, Kennedy and of course everyone's favorite - Gerrard.

    So I would say that signing and starting and sticking with Gerrard is right in the middle of Bruce's wheelhouse, historically speaking.
     
  3. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your memory is better than mine, but it's still hard for me to see the Gerrard singing in the same light of those others. The chief difference is that a lot of the old guys Arena's leaned on past their use by date performed for him at some point in their careers and and earned some kind of loyalty from Arena.
     
  4. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dang there was more to that, but my post got chopped. Anyway:

    1) Gerrard's an old guy, but there's no indication he's one of Bruce's old guys. All coaches have "their guys", and Bruce can be loyal to a fault to guys that have been rocks for him in the past OR provide some off the field intangibles that Bruce values. But that's not Gerrard. I mean, he probably has those qualities, but Bruce hasn't witnessed it first hand and I don't think you get to be one of Arena's guys on rep alone. Arena doesn't strike me as a fanboy; if anything his loyalty to some pretty unremarkable joes over the years shows that. I see no indication that Bruce actually wants the headache of having to start Gerrard.

    2) Bruce can be remarkably stubborn with the personnel he picks for some roles, but he's never brought in an old guy and built a whole team around 'em the way he has with Gerrard. I think Arena sees role players like Agoos and Leonardo as a risk he can manage; they bring something he values and he can offset their deficiencies. Hard to blame his calculations most of the time, which is why Gerrard stands out. Gerrard isn't a managed risk; his inclusion adds unnecessary risk with little payoff. If anything, Arena usually chooses older guys because theyA know him and can mold seamlessly into his systems and plug a hole in a pinch. Gerrard's been the total opposite.
     
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  5. LEM-LAG

    LEM-LAG Member+

    May 28, 2011
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Watching the last two MLS Cup finalists not reaching the playoffs (plus Portland being eliminated from the CCL) has recalled me how hard it is to qualify for the playoffs every year. And even more when you know that every MLS Cup winner has to lost some players during the next offseason. I don't think the Timbers are worse than RSL or SKC despite losing Wallace, Villafana, Johnson, Urruti and Kwarasey, but they didn't get the job done.

    So, thank you Mr. Arena.

    But still, because we may need it, FIRE BRUCE!!!
     
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  6. kaburu

    kaburu Member+

    Jul 12, 2009
    los angeles
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
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  8. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is a fantastic read.
     
  9. Regal

    Regal Member

    Aug 10, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This loss against Colorado is absolutely on Bruce. Starting Gordon, Magee and Husidic??? What did Donovan do so wrong that he was subbed out at half time?

    We need to take a serious look at Bruce's decisions. To me, he's getting dumber and dumber. Very, very frustrating.

    Fire his dumb a.....
     
  10. LEM-LAG

    LEM-LAG Member+

    May 28, 2011
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Gordo and Husidic? They have been great the last two games, they had to start. Magee started because Boateng was injured, this is logic. Donovan was likely injured, it's logic to sub him.

    We can blame Bruce on a lot of things (and we will in the next few days), but he made the right choices here.

    Here are some more questionable things : sign Gerrard, Juni's departure, force Gerrard to play with the team, our road mentality, bring Ricketts and Kennedy as starting keepers, the impossible De Jong contract...
     
  11. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Add letting Cole take his first career pk for us. In the playoffs no less.
     
  12. Carlosamigos

    Carlosamigos Member

    May 21, 2016
    Belfast
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Larentowicz had to start for me. Gordon has been doing well and should have kept his spot. Magee hasn't deserved a start.

    But overall, Bruce doesn't seem to give the team any real direction. Larentowicz at half time was a waste of a sub really, you are losing, Gerrard should have went on. And Bruce doesn't make big decisions. Dos Santos "player of the year", how horrendous was he? Worst of a bad bunch last night. You need a manager who can call that. I'd have preferred to keep Gordon on, take Dos Santos off and get Keane on (if you want to bring him on).
     
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  13. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not firing him. We could do so much worse and he does still have a great record. He gets another few year contract out of me BUT needs to make some major changes in the team.

    He did figure out where the team should go at the end. Unfortunately too late.
     
  14. Esc-soccer

    Esc-soccer Member

    Dec 25, 2009
    Inland Empire, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's TIME!
    I thing we all agree that we appreciate what Bruce has done, but the reality of things is that the league is changing rapidly, so the mentality of having veterans win championships has to change, this was the strategy of 4-8 years ago. What we need is prime players in the middle of their career [Ex. Flounders Mid Season Signing and others] so no more spending our money in maybe it will work strategy "Gerrard Prime Ex." the academy is coming along well lets give this kids opportunity to grow in the first team with Sub-minutes. The biggest problem I see in the galaxy is the midfield. We can always add a potential good attacking weapon but we need to fix the mid. This is what Bruce has failed to do for whatever reason as GM and HC his responsible. So NO excuses and time for a change hope Kris Steps up and do something good for his legacy run.
     
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  15. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    100% nope.

    LA had the worst goals-against record last season, this season we had the second best, he fixed by far the biggest problem without sacrificing the offense. LA had the second best goal differential overall and the most goals scored in the Western Conference. Yes, ultimately managers in MLS are judged on MLS Cup and LA has failed miserably the last two seasons in that respect, but no team has been more consistent over the past 8 years than the Galaxy.

    I see so many people clamoring for young/unknown players or looking longingly at others with Valeri and Lodeiros and yeah those are enviable players, but younger/unknown does not automatically mean better than old/experienced; it’s false dichotomy.

    There’s been lot’s of excitement around Red Bull for 2-3 seasons now, same with Dallas, both very youth oriented teams lacking big names, both have choked two years in a row to older teams in the playoffs. Last year’s MLS Cup finalists were garnering attention for their coaches and articles on MLS about the “Is this the end of the big name DP strategy”, both teams this year were dumpster fires. Now it’s Pablo getting the hype train treatment.

    As I’ve said in the past I think this pining for a new manager is a case of the grass always being greener. Are you really willing to accept 1-2 seasons missing the playoffs, only to get back to exactly where the team is today in terms of challenging for a title? MLS Cup winners are defined by their form headed in to October and the ability to handle the pressures of a post-season in a league where week-to-week pressure is low.
     
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  16. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Our record this season was fine and on its own would be no reason to talk about dumping Arena. But by the vision test - we were pretty awful all season except for defense. A lot of our wins in the middle of the season would come when we scored on one of the three shots we created. We spent large portions of game in our own half and I've never seen an LA team allow so many shots. They were poor shots because of our solid back four but the reason they were shooting at all was because we couldn't keep the ball out of our own half for large portions of games.

    Short version - record ok, on-field product dismal.
     
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  17. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Essentially I agree with this and very much respect what Bruce has accomplished. I think we understand that there has to be a rebuild - age has caught up with some of the vets and big contracts are expiring. My concern is whether Bruce has the interest and energy to go through that process now. His overly flippant attitude (even by Bruce standards) looked to me like he was mailing it in this last year. He even was re-cycling old snark. It worries me. Based on his history I would like to see him do the rebuild. But if he half-asses that, I am done.
     
  18. Berks

    Berks Member+

    Dec 22, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^Agree with what's said above about keeping him. Usually I'm content to read the off season news and let that roll by. This year I'm really really anxious. The team NEEDS to change. Bruce has to recognize that and make the changes. He's not stupid, and I think he's tactically alert to this fact, knowing that he overhauled this team essentially in the playoffs by benching $12M and starting Alan Gordon for the first time ever. Think about that for a second.

    So....we should be making some moves. Will we?
     
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  19. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    I think that might be confirmation bias to be honest. As the season petered out it highlighted the weaknesses and recalled the poor performances – of which there were many, but there were also more than a few games where things clicked, sometimes for only a half, but it was there. For my money we were just wildly inconsistent and couldn’t get a solid groove going when it mattered.

    I think that’s a fair point. Some of it might be just be answering the same question for the umpteenth time, but he might also be bored. I do wonder if he might have phoned it in this year when saddled with dos Santos and Gerrard. Just idle speculation, but neither of those signings filled a need and were as much marketing as they were football reasons.

    Regardless, I wouldn’t call next season “make or break” for Bruce, but what happens between now and March is going to be an interesting off-season. One of the first in recent times where I’m less concerned with keeping players and more with who comes in.
     
  20. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #920 skydog, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
    I believe Gerrard's injuries were what benched him. Also somewhat true of Keane until the last couple games.
     
  21. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    For the record I think Bruce needs to make the Western Conference Finals next season and reach a Cup Final or win the Supporters’ Shield in the next two years. If next season is a mid-to-large rebuild patience will be required.
     
  22. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Not on my part. When everyone was saying we were fine midseason because we were winning games and because "we are late season performers" I was saying we were on a lucky streak and that this season was worse than previous ones. I've always been a firm believer in the data which says that - regardless of the results over the last few games - if you aren't generating a lot of shots (and we were 19th or 20th in shots and sog for most of the season) then you won't win in the long run. Btw we ended up in last place for shots taken (and we weren't close to 19th place) and 16th in sog. These are categories that we had dominated in previous seasons because of our midfield superiority. This year - except for just a handful of games - our midfield was inferior all season.
     
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  23. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #923 MPNumber9, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
    I'm still of the opinion that the Gerrard move was forced on Bruce. Remember Bruce had been trying hard to get Kljestan as far back as mid-2014. I think the Gerrard signing was an attempt to save a little face after moving heaven and earth to get Sacha and failing twice. Aside from SG8, Bruce's others signings have been terrific: dos Santos*, Van Damme, de Jong, Boateng.

    *Gio isn't the player we all hoped, but he's an impressive signing as age, name and talent-level go. Our goal should be to bring in more DPs like him that're closer to their prime.
     
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  24. skydog

    skydog Member+

    Aug 1, 1999
    Durham, NC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Btw while I'm critical Bruce fairly often I'm not saying he should go. I'm very familiar with the grass is greener illusion. And there isn't a coach out there who hasn't had a rough spell and made mistakes. If I were in charge I would let him try to rebuild this team with a lot of freed up $. He messes up the rebuild? Well then he has to go.
     
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  25. GalaxyKoa

    GalaxyKoa Member+

    Jul 18, 2007
    North County
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely, and I also had the same concerns middle of the season. There certainly were questions prior to our dismal end of the season run and Bruce waived them away with "stats don't matter". I think that terrible end of the season run was absolutely predictable. Granted, Zardes' injury plays a large part in that, but warning signs certainly abounded.

    Bruce is 65. We're going to have to replace him at some point in the near-ish future purely due to Bruce retiring. Coming off two disappointing seasons where we failed out of the playoffs with a whimper and where we have a lot of flexibility in terms of contracts expiring and open DP slots, I could see this being the right time to do it. Plus our entire coaching staff is pretty much Bruce cronies and I could see a massive turnover on that side as well (but if Onalfo leaves LA Galaxy II, I wouldn't shed a tear). If we pull the trigger, it's a massive gamble, but it's a gamble we make as some point in the next few years.

    That being said, I'd trust Bruce over anyone with that rebuild (or at least 2009-2014 Bruce). My concern though is how long of a contract he'd want. If he is willing to accept a one year contract, I'd give him that, but Bruce is certainly the highest paid manager in the league and giving him a multi year contract may not be in the cards either. A one year contract may not be the best place for Bruce, though, given that he'd be entirely in win-now mode during a re-build which is not ideal.

    I've said this before but I have concerns that he goes to LAFC if we let him go, which would be a massive coup for them. I might re-sign Bruce purely based on that alone.

    Ultimately, I'm of the opinion I would completely understand either decision. While I lean toward keeping Bruce, part of me wants to see what happens if we stir the pot.
     

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