CSA launching Canadian Premier League

Huge difference between support for hockey in general and soccer.

OHL and other minor leagues survive bc it's part of Canadian culture to like hockey. Soccer not so much

 

I agree. There may be a market for minor league soccer in second-tier Canadian cites. But, I don't see Canadian sports fans in the major-league cities being any different than their American counterparts. Their interest in minor league sports is going to be limited.

 

Not that I'm an expert but those cities are big enough to make it work with some smart management. The guys over at CSN seem positive which is enough for me to be hopeful.

 

If you look at what the Fury did, by tying it the identity in with the CFL team and selling the product as a family event with a youth focus. That type marketing really paid off in attendance numbers. I'd imagine that wherever they do place teams a similar marketing angle would be successful in both minor and major league markets.

The CFL guys already have the systems in place and stadium with few tenants. Except Toronto and Vancouver, most of these stadiums are largely idle apart from the CFL games.

 

Pretty good article, and glad he actually put some numbers behind things. Unlike many who just assume X dollars for X/Y/Z. That said....many many best case scenario assumptions and it still looks bleak imo. Not sure how this survives 3+ years.

 

Initial B is here on the BS forums.

He posted something similar here: http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/c-league.2026448/page-2#post-33362665

Back in December too.

 

and, to be clear, the OHL has been an abysmal failure in the GTA. So, for the most part, has minor pro hockey.

 

The Gens are the exception that proves the rule....no? St Mikes....couldn't fill their 1,600 seat barn.....Mississauga Ice Dogs drew abysmally...then when St. Mikes moved to replace them after they moved to St. Kitts...same thing....and Steelheads continue to struggle woefully......Brampton Battalion in their 15 years were constantly at/near the bottom of attendance charts (along with whatever team was in Mississauga)....even the old "they should never have added 3 teams west of Yonge Street at same time" thing has been proved false as Mississauga has that massive market to themselves and still draws very small attendance. CHL then ECHL in Brampton has been a flop....Marlies get decent crowds, ocassionally, but it is still really hard work (with, by far, the best team in the AHL)....and Hamilton (if you want to stretch GTA further to insert a "H" in it) has never been successful with Jr or minor pro teams.

Hold true in other sports...before the NBA came to Toronto there were minor pro flops and the west GTA has churned through 2 Canadian pro basketball teams and I hear Raptors 905 is not going barnburners. Soccer was terribly attended here in its various minor pro variants before we went big time with MLS. It could be argued that the biggest thing holding back Argo attendance was/is not venue but, rather, the perception that CFL is not the highest level of the sport in North America and, therefore, not worthy of GTA attention.

 

Are Montreal or Vancouver sports fans any different? Fans in major-league cities don't typically have interest in minor league sports.

 

looking here.....http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=8759 if any of the 3 major junior hockey teams mentioned above had come even close to the numbers that the whl's Giants get then I don't think my post above would have seen the light of day

Various efforts have been made to establish junior hockey in Montreal with little success.

 

MLS understands this it's why they don't put full credence into NASL/USL cities attendance before they ascend to MLS.

 

NBL Durham power flopped there too before they moved to Peel to flop again. Don't discount Durham from the GTA, especially if you want to throw in the hammer.

I think in regards to minor pro/major junior in Hamilton it might have something to do with the bitterness of not getting a big show team. Back when the NHL did neutral site games, Hamilton drew very well, after that expansion that didn't include them all hockey seemed to suffer.

 

I don't think I "discounted" Durham......I just suggest(ed) that the Gens are the exception that proves the rule.

Sure, NHL hockey sold out in Hamilton.....i think it would sell out in Mississauga and Brampton too (very quickly and at very high prices given the size of the rinks) but that kinda shows what we are talking about.....minor/junior sports here is a very tough sell......major pro not so much.

 

Potential fans in New York City proper, Atlanta, Toronto, and Seattle were not attending minor league soccer, as they generally didn't do so in other sports. Therefore ticket sales for inaugural MLS seasons far outstripped what had been seen by minor league predecessors. The presence of a minor league team just plain didn't matter. In several smaller cities, the organization and its core fan base were already established and built on what came before it, as seen in Portland, Vancouver, and Orlando. If those teams had come from nowhere, I think they would have experienced the same sort of organizational growing pains as RSL.

 

I think it is pretty well established that good support at the minor level implies good support at the pro level while poor support at the minor level doesn't necessarily say anything about the level of support a pro team will receive.

 

Here is a podcast discussing the CPL

http://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/246634132-footy-soldiers-fs-canadianpremierleaguespecial.mp3

 

There's no doubt in my mind that there are enough soccer fans in Canada for a league to survive. And it seems like they will have solid ownership. But I do wonder where all these Canadian players are going to come from, in the short term. Presumably the best Canadian players are going to play in MLS or Europe. And at best you have a league in which Kyle Bekker is a star.

 

@Ghost Look at the numbers carefully. You'll find the talent pool of Canadian professional players exceeds the roster spots available for the amount of teams available and very few of them would take a pay cut to play at home for the salary cap mentioned...

The biggest hurdle is if they want to come home to play in colder conditions in comparison to the respective pay raise; it's easier to pay us less if we see a palm tree and a pelican along with the hope that the beach won't freeze over...

 

There's plenty of players to fill a small Canadian league. The level of play won't be close to MLS '96, but there are people who will do it for a pittance. Minor league sports never seem to lack for competitors, even when there's no pay at all. Finding ~150 capable Canuckistanis should not prove difficult. Play for the fledgling league may be somewhat below NASL/USL, but probably not remarkably so. The NASL teams, should they defect, won't roll over the other teams on just quality (though continuity would certainly be an advantage).

The ties part-owner Jeff Hunt has to the CFL indicate a greater likelihood of the Ottawa Fury joining the CPL than FC Edmonton, where the Faths are tied to the NASL. Bob Young is committed in Hamilton. Obviously, MLSE isn't going to run a team in Toronto. I do wonder why the league might avoid Edmonton if it's considering MLS markets, and I'm somewhat pessimistic about the publicly-owned CFL teams (Edmonton, Saskatchewan, and Winnipeg) being interested in adding a soccer team. This means Toronto has the Argonauts' Bell Canada/Kilmer Sports, Montreal has both the Molsons (Canadiens) and Wetenhall (Alouettes), Vancouver has both Aquilini (Canucks) and Braley (Lions), Calgary has only CSEC, which owns both the Flames and Stampeders, and Winnipeg has True North (Jets). If the league does decide to take on FC Edmonton, perhaps the Katz Group (Oilers) would be willing to invest. To get a team in Regina would take convincing the public ownership of the Roughriders, or a new investor (as may places like Quebec, Halifax, or any of the other significant markets of Ontario).

 

you are right for most of the years, but now the NBA Raptors, the MLS TFC and the Blue Jays of MLB are turning the tide for MLSE - all 3 are successful and all are success stories with significant attendances - only the Maple Leafs of the NHL are eternally plaqued and yet pack the fools in; the Argos of the CFL will do much better at BMO field at the gate

 

Oh, I'm sure they can dig up enough players. But can they dig up enough players that people will pay to watch? And how wildly divergent in talent will it be from the best to the worst?

MLS 96 at least had a decently successful group of USMNT players to draw from at the top of the pool. I'm not sure that the CPL will have the same.

I've always thought that a CPL, at least at the beginning, would have big ideas about playing a lot of Canadians, but eventually would end with a ton of Americans. and basically becoming a northern version of NASL/USL. Is that worth it to the Canadian soccer fan, if it helps give more Canadian players professional opportunities? Maybe. Given the mixed blessing that MLS has been for Canadian soccer, I don't blame the CSA for wanting to find out. But how well it will work, I don't know.