Van Persie: 7144 minutes / 49 goals / 148 minutes per goal Huntelaar: 4163 minutes / 41 goals / 101 minutes per goal Being all time top scorer is mostly just the result of being the Oranje striker with the most caps ever. Sure he isn't a horrible player. But he does not deserve to be rated higher than Huntelaar on the basis of his performances for Oranje.
Still.. don't you think you guys are going a little overboard with the RVP bashing?.. Things were quit for two years when he was playing at a top club, but now that he is down, we get this again.. This just seems silly.
I don't want to do this.. You already know what i'm going to say. (the fact RVP was a winger for a huge amount of those minutes, how he is always double marked as opposed to Hunter, How important he is at retaining the ball, how he makes space for others, etc). I don't see the point of this discussion, so let's not do that. Btw I have always wondered about this, as an Ajax fan don't think Robin is by far the most "Ajax striker" of the two?? For you, an Ajax fan, fan of pure football to prefer a 1 dimensional striker over versatile technical striker seems.. ehmm.. Contradictory to say the least.
My first Orange match was against Bulgaria or Russia (not sure which one was the first, getting old) in around 1963. Beat that, haha.
Van Dijk has been called up. And of course, Lens. It's all down hill from here anyway, could have El Ghazi a chance as 3rd(?) option for RW..
I don't know why you debate Huntelaar vs RVP? It is a team game, 11 players and you need all of them to contribute to win (perhaps contribute more than another). For this game I don't think RVP starting will make difference, especially not with BMI kept getting red card or VDW fouled to give away PK that we knew 99% Cillessen would not save (unless the Iceland player hit the post or missed the goal altogether). We had a few chances but could not convert. With this team it needs to score early to lead, not the team that can come back. Let's see what Blind could learn from this failure as I do not think KNVB would sack him just after one game. We still have a Turkey game to prepare for and probably fighting for 3rd place. Is Van Dijk and Lens confirmed to be called up? Is there any chance we can replace Luuk De Jong with Dost? I guess I will not see Krul to start over Cillessen soon.
I would give the starting spot to Van Dijk, we'll see if he got balls. Bruma/Kongolo aren't more trustable as CB anyway. Tete as RB in Turkey is scaring, but VDW deserves the bench. Also I don't really trust Anita for such a game, would put Blind as DM. That would mean Riedewald/Kongolo as LB. --Tete-------------------------------------De Vrij----------------------Van Dijk------------------------Riedewald/Kongolo --------------------------------------------Blind------------------------Klaassen----------------------------------------------- --Promes-------------------------------------------Sneijder------------------------------------------------Depay -------------------------------------------------------Huntelaar/RVP--------------------------------------------------------- Should give their best to get a draw there. Then Kazakhstan and Czech Republic are obviously beatable if Robben and Sneijder are fit.
If he would play for us like he did for Arsenal and Man U (first year) it would be an easy choice. However I find that his contributions to our play as well as our chance creation and conversion have been very limited in his appearances in Oranje. He seems to have a connection with no one except Afellay and Maher. If we're going to have a striker on an island most of the time I would prefer it to be Huntelaar. I don't like Huntelaar more as a player. I just don't agree with the sentiment that Van Persie deserves a starting spot without discussion.
Alright so there is a silver lining behind this absolute f***fest of a game. It bothered me a lot that I saw BMI appear in line ups and that Wiel was even called up. These clear mistakes of those 2 players might have kicked them out. Wiel is a coward. Opposite of Tete at the moment, who grabs the opponent at the throat. I am not sold on his attacking dimension, but he does not radiate fear through the team. Wiel tried to act though 1 time and he messed up and what a way of doing so in our own penalty box. Blind made this choice and he owns this decision. Wiel is not a guy you want in your team if you have any ambition or have seen his games in the NT in recent time. BMI has doen some good things for the NT in the 2014 campaign, he has a charming character and is good for the dressing room I think, but at the WC and after that he has lost it. He also lost his spot to Kongolo back at the end of his Feyenoord time IIRC, or there was something going on in any case, so it is not like he was ruling and then made a transfer. These clear mess ups could be the end of the debate and we can move on investing in players that will also mess up, but have more potential. That is the good thing The not so good thing is that this is that moment we feared. There is a huge gap between the Robben generation and what comes next. We suck. When Robben/Sneijder/vdV/RvP pushed to get in the team around that Advocaat era, it was quality that was knocking. That is less the case at the moment. We can say we want to move on, but dropping the oldies is IMO not so much part of the solution. Sneijder is also not holding back Memphis for example. He let him take that free kick that was yet again not properly anticipated on by the attackers (rebound). Another thing is that Cillessen literally got the ball to his hand and still was unable to stop it. Like .... dude ... . I mean as angry as I was, that borders humor. I think at the WC vs Argentina he also got the ball to his hand or body or whatever and was still not able to manage a save. I did not see all of it, but I think I saw some intimidation tactics from him? Would love people to confirm as I could not see properly (was not at home watching). That is good, but it really starts to become a sad thing. I saw comments on Klaassen having some positive contributions, but I did not like how he had a few mis passses. That bothers me. It sends a bad signal into the team that he can not be accurate over 20 or 30 meters. He also back passes a lot. General passing was too soft. I did not like Klaassen in DM, but I am willing to see him higher up. It is simple. Gino out, Klaassen can play the runner role. Wijnaldum is playing a game in a game. We watch football, his team tends to play that game, but he plays hide a seek. It's a fine game, but just not what he is for when at Oranje. When he pops up here and there he misses chances, places bad passes and has really little influence and presence in the game. I don't want to build on him for the future. Sneijder. No power in his distance shots. There is no dynamism from him and penetrating runs into the 16. He drops so often and gives passes that anybody can give. It's not that he was very bad, but it was neither somebody who carried the team with 10 men (that of course bites with his brand of football, needing outlets and runners in front of him). Robben. Did not see his post match contribution, but his body language was good. Angry, serious and ready to give people a piece of his mind. Good. Narsingh. Good game for him. His shot on goal was not out of the stadium and though he still started actions without any idea how to end them, some did end up in a cross for the keeper or a shot on goal that was only 3 meter wide or something. For the NT we need players that can play football, so then it is maybe wise to move on from him. I also do not get why we played with a guy that only does 1 thing (kick the ball along the line, run behind it and come with a cross) to then not have a center striker to head any cross in. I mean who is going to head in a ball? Depay? He can not head a ball and is a midget. So what was the logic? Huntelaar-Narsingh can make sense, but without the Hunter, Narsingh makes almost no sense anymore. Huntelaar. Yeah I was wondering if he actually stopped a goal from happening? I did not like his late anticipation on some Memphis crosses in. A younger Huntelaar might have tapped them in or anticipated better. Memphis. Well, you know the drill. Some sloppy moments, but he brings something and can create a bit out of nothing. Not the worst player on the field. I forgot Blind. Not so much an opinion on him. His father failed today as did his assistants. Iceland. There is no excuse. Not having it. This was a game we had to win, he was given a chance, but he lost at home from an Island with the population of one of our bigger cities. Did not see the fight or spirit in the team to prove themselves to the new coach, did not see eager play from the start, did not see bravado. His body language is also negative, but that is his thing. Not something of this day or week. Ruud annoys me on the bench. He looks like a school kid.
Hmm, Bruma and de Vrij. Both not the worst. Also Bruma was not that bad. De Vrij does have the turn around his own axis of an oil tanker though. Man does he move difficult when he has to quickly move the other way.
Like I said during the game, he did everything right up until his hand turned into jello and let the ball go through. Employed stall tactics, went up to the opposing player to argue about the spot, made himself look big and looked confident. He even went the right way and had enough extension to get to the ball. And then he let it in anyway. Huge improvement in the preparation for the PK at least. Previously, it looked like the goal had already been scored before it was even taken. He was a deer in the headlights who didn't look like he had any idea how to stop it and was just going through the motions. Today I thought that he looked like he was going to save it Van Marwijk knew that winning was a habit. They won game after game after game because they went into every game believing that they would win them. It didn't matter who the opponent was, they went in to win. Now the attitude is all about respecting the opponent and trying to get a decent result. They've gone from believing that they will win to believing that the other team is good enough to beat them. And as a result we see negative tactics like taking the striker off for a defender when we don't even have a lead yet and there's still another 55 minutes of football to be played. They played a tiny country, yet they didn't believe that they could win without Robben, and certainly not with only ten men. They believed that a 0-0 was the most they could hope for at that point, and when it went 0-1, it was as if the game was already lost...
Yeah but do you choose RvP or Huntelaar . You dodge the ultimate question with the way you use that slash there. I learned from this thread that even though they were a side show in this game, this is the most important question to this day. Forget the fact our midfield is weaker than I can remember in recent history and Iceland were even out passing us at the start of the game. Forget that defense is giving goals away time and again during this campaign that are laughable. Forget that we have a keeper that can get balls kicked on his hand, he will simply not stop a penalty. All lines are killing us at the moment, we have lost 6 points to mighty Iceland, but I want to focus RvP or Huntelaar for a zillionth time. If done so, I would also want to ask if S. can weigh in and repeat his opinion on the matter. It is still not clear to me if he fancies Hunter over RvP or the other way around.
Ohh RVP had regressed allright. No one can deny that, he is never going to be as good as he was in the qualifications for the last WC. But the same thing is going on with Huntelaar.. I sometime wonder if Hunter fans even watch Hunter play at Schalke. He is also pretty much on the same boat as RVP as far is his form is concerned.. Let's look at from a different angle: He now got a few starts back to back, so are you happy with Huntelaar'a chance creation and conversion rate in the games that he has started so far vs Van Persie's? And think about this: Do you think Robben and Sneijder would have preformed this well with a static 9 instead of a dynamic 9 in the last 8 years? Why Maher?? :/ RVP is good friends with Afellay so that makes sense, he plays well with Clasie, also has good chemistry with Robben. They were on a roll in the last qualification. And lets not forget how awesome he and VDV were together in the early days. The only one he can't play with is Sneijder, but that more than just football on the field. As a closing statement I'll give you one thing, RVP will NEVER be as good of a sub as Huntelaar.
Alright. This is good. If he would just keep continuing being a nice guy I would be a lot more impatient with him. Looks like he at least is ticking off all boxes to influence the outcome of a penalty. Was about time. Yeah I loved that about van Marwijk and it feels right to me. I mean I know we suck, but losing 6 points to Iceland is worse than we are. They have enough players from minor leagues and are quality wise still not better. That gap between ability and (under) performance is certainly also due to coaching and indeed self belief. We can also thank Hiddink for that.
We lost 6 points to Iceland. Iceland That is criminal. The worst part is that it is not even undeserved. We lost 6 points to Iceland and it is kind of right looking at the games. We were without chance over there and were pretty damn poor at home as well. I mean that first chance of the game for Iceland only needed a slight tap in. Was a good chance and the lethargic way of defending was bothering me to no end. After the red card and certainly the pen. we looked like never getting back. At home, with 40 or 50.000 people behind them. Absolute rubbish.
This is the fault of the KNVB, but also the fault of Hiddink not giving a shit. He should have been let go last fall already. He considered stepping down if he lost his next game back then already. He showed that he didn't have confidence in his own ability to get the job done, but decided to draw out the inevitable for another half year. If he was close enough to leaving that a loss in a friendly was all it would take to leave, then he should have stepped down before that and let his successor use the friendlies to experiment. Instead Blind's first game is with the Euro on the line
I was a bit annoyed with his professional " fouls" at the start. Yes that can be good, but it is humiliating to me that we even have to go there. Yeah, sure when Veltman grabs his arms around Zlatan to contain him after he slips away, but we should not need to do such stuff early in the game and against f****** Iceland. They should never get out or pose a threat on the counter. High ball circulation is another problem. I want it faster, though I am not sure he is number 1 to point at with this complaint. Still we need to speed things up from the back. Finally his turns around his own axis. 1 time Bruma passed it a bit on front of him, so that he had to do a 180 and go for the ball moving all his body weight the other way around, but he was never going to get it. Ball was given away to Iceland again. That is never going to leave him and that means he can never become a really good corrector. If he is the ultimate anticipating defender then this does not have to be the biggest of problems, but he is not that. De Vrij is not now nr 1 to go after to fix problems, like Wiel and BMI are, however to say he calms my nerves? No. He is not a solution long term if we want to compete with the big boys. What did you like about him today? Just curious.
Danny Blind calling out players is very bad for the team spirit IMHO it's his first match and he goes for a radical change. I praise BMI a lot on this forum and when he is on form he is a tidy player a big reason Porto made the QF last year in the CL but to start him when he isn't starting for Porto is criminal he just came back from injury I think the Netherlands have plenty quality but with the management of Blind not even Messi, Ronaldo or Maradona an inform Robben would do much