Alert: Next decades Netherlands will be the new Hungary of Europe. Once great, but slipped into mediocrity.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2014/netherlands-0#.VKHH014AKA

Climate in the Netherlands is not determined by Wilders or Islam extremists, not even close. Political rights 40/40, Civil Liberties 39/40. The score is almost unmatched by any country in the world. This is also not a Dutch institution making such a claim or putting these scores forward. The principles of freedom in this country are implemented in a more than solid way. USA who likes to think of themselves as champions of freedom score 37/40 and 55/60. Go figure.

I already made a ranking about the big immigrant groups living in the Netherlands and I agree with your Turkey example, but to use the attraction power of that country on it's descendants as a measure for Suriname would be a mistake IMO. These are separate cases with their own dynamic and history.

The Biggest talents of this last era were by the way also not of foreign descent, but more Dutch. Sneijder, Robben, RvP (who has somewhere also Indonesian background, but mother and father look rather Dutch to me). Vaart does have a Spanish mother I think, but then again a Dutch father and was also nurtured by the Dutch system. In the previous generation I rate Bergkamp easily over almost anybody. Van der Sar. Kluivert was a more smooth player than Ruud, but Ruud is rated internationally higher than Kluivert. It's up for debate that one. I prefer a Kluivert by the way. I would even go as far that there was not much between Cocu and Davids. I think Cocu had as much grit and battle power as Davids. Cocu was good for the group process, while Davids was bad for the group process. Before that Rijkaard and Gullit were great, but so were Koeman and van Basten.

This upcoming generation? Strootman is a clear new leader. Van Ginkel I saw and still see a pillar for the NT in when he finally gets a lucky break and makes some solid career choices. Klaassen is the new coming man from Ajax, Clasie is a great little upcoming midfielder from Feyenoord and while we all look at Kongolo as the next defender for the NT in the near future, he passes almost all balls to Beek to take care of build up.... I can obviously list quite some players of foreign descent that might add to the Dutch NT in the future, but a lot also are not and then still it takes another step to automatically assume that they feel little attachment with the Netherlands. That is way too premature to say. A lot do love to represent the Netherlands and grow up hoping one day they will. Actually I saw Willems taking quite some time to thank Bert van Marwijk for a chance to play for the NT on a Euro at such a young age and even called him a father figure.

However the claim was that the most talented players are of foreign descent and I disagree with that. Not in the past and not in the present.

There is also one other thing to consider from another angle. If a player is easily persuaded to play for another country, then that is a great way to filter out the players that might hurt the group process. So these nations trying to lure away Dutch players might actually take out the bad apples and make us stronger. Look at the last WC. Lack of quality, but teamgeist got us so far. That is precious thing to attain.

cheers

 

I agree with this post. This is what I contested from the other post though:

I think that is a stretch, don't you think? Past and present that is just not true and I did not even revere to mentioning Cruyff, Rensenbrink, Wilkes etc.

About Nouri, there is one thing to consider when projecting his future ceiling. He will never score many goals from distance, or he makes a serious leap in that department that is not visible yet. The whole thing that makes Ziyech interesting (scoring goals from distance also), I see far less with Nouri and a 10 is kind of demanded from to score and assist quite some over a season. I am familiar with the Iniesta example, but that is a really high level we are talking about. What I am saying is that if a 10 comes around with a lot of production, then however good a player is, he will have a problem.

Wingers, we agree. Maybe it is even the whole front line. Depay's mother is by the way Dutch. My point is that there are also a lot of mixed cases, not so much exclusively of foreign descent.

On a side note, the guy I see as best for the group process is BMI. On par or even above Dirk Kuyt. I think he is top in the dressing room and boosts morale like no other. Also is the hardest singer during the anthem. My point here being that there are a lot of guys from foreign descent being super proud to play for the Orange shirt, and right they are. Country's sniffing around Dutch talents is a good thing maybe. It assures that we keep the good apples like BMI who really want to be in the Dutch NT. That secures the feeling of cohesion of the group. As important as quality.

cheers


PS are you saying Hupperts is not going to become a world class winger one day

 

Could you expand on the point you are making here? Don't exactly understand what you are saying. Cheers.

 

^To add to that, it is questionable if France has better integrated people running around in their team. I felt that the previous generation with Anelka and Evra were underperforming for some years due to being troubled in the same way Davids and Seedorf were for us some time ago. Evra I am not sure of though, but I always sensed he was a splitting character in the group. Ribery was also a splitting character, but that had roots in different social economical backgrounds. Also, Ribery in general is an idiot. I remember how he gave Robben a blue eye once in the dressing room.

England is not all that great either if it comes to integration. How many black managers are there in EPL? Netherlands put forward Rijkaard, ten Cate, Menzo, Seedorf. That ADO Den Haag manager. Though this is a different angle than talking about the NT. The English minority's in the NT do not look troubled, England has a much bigger sport cultural problem that hurts top performances. I always sense that they are afraid to give their all or admit that the players gave their all. If I read comments afterwards from English posters they want to put forward that the players did not put their heart into it, due to rating club higher or being tired from the club season or being against the FA. As long as that excuse mentality is a viable thing to say after a defeat, I think they have a problem.

 

I think I remember he had problems with Gourcuff. Ribery totally lost it when said player took a book with him. Go figure. No wonder France does pretty good without him. Good example where a quality player makes the total sum less, rather than more.

I think the same concerning Depay and Willems long term. Once they are high up the hierarchy of the NT, they could become an anti intellectual threat. I was surprised to hear from Cocu that Willems is actually involved in tactical conversations lately. Maybe better to wait that one out. PVA, Buttner are also suspect for me.

 

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