i agree, which is odd given the amount of individual talent they seem to have. several of their players displayed very good ball control, most notably when one of their defenders (mids?) shrugged off donovan two or three times on the near sideline. and many of their players possess a powerful shot from distance. why then, i wonder, do they seem to perform so poorly as a unit. had the US team clicked out there, and included maybe a john obrien or pablo mastroeni i think we would have run over them the way they played tonight. or maybe i'm all wrong, and playing the way they did is just "jamaica's style". i imagine both teams went home feeling they under-performed.
The game confirmed some things we already knew: 1. We don't have steady outside backs. Dolo really wasn't a better option because . . . 2. He's small, which is true of many of our players. The USA isn't very physical and has trouble holding the ball against teams like Jamaica. 3. Armas isn't the best option at DM. 4. Bruce prefers to play the veterans, rather than look to the future. I have to wonder if any nation in the remaining CONCACAF field has so many active players in their 30s: Armas - 32 next week Hejduk - 30 Cobi - 34 Keller - 34 [But keepers usually last longer] Lewis - 30 McBride - 32 Pope - 30 Reyna - 31 Stewart - 35 Vanney - 30 That's 11 of the 14 men who saw action tonight 30 or older. The majority of them did not play well. This group can get us into the Hexagonal and maybe through it, but they won't be ready for prime time in 2006. All that aside I feel pretty good about the result as this was by far the toughest match we'll face in this round. I can't see us finishing with less than 12 points.
its a fact known only to those in the information business that the "weapons of mass destrucion" Dubya was referring to were in fact armies of samurai. alas for his credibility they were all exported for use in the making of the motion picture The Last Samurai, starring, in some alternate universe, Nick Nolte.
I definetly think Arena should, and likely will, bring new players into the lineup after tonight, but there really doesn't seem to be alot of need in "blooding" players as it were. Donavon, Beasley, Ching, Zavagnian all pretty smoothly transitioned from MLS to international soccer. Good players in one are probably going to be good in the other. Bruce's problem is not recognizing when guys no longer are able to perform at either.
Yea, agree. To tell you the truth i didnt know that Jamaica has so much indivudual talent, some good players out there, and the crowd was going nuts, good for them. Lets hope the team starts picking up some steam, mediocrity against Poland and now Jamaica, this is why regardless of the MLS season, i thought it was important for this team to play at Copa America in order to play better in official competition. They better start picking up their game.
Indeed. Some guys need to take a long look at their performance, but we got the result. Mission kinda accomplished. To be fair on one point, Pablo was capped pretty much right after his citizenship was straightened out, IIRC. He just didn't play in any qualifiers. I don't see it as a blind spot. I see it as trust. I didn't like the Cobi call up. I was pissed he went into the game, but Bruce knows what he will get. He doesn't have to coach Cobi. That's sometimes what you need. We got the point. Sure, it was ugly, but I bet you Jamaica would take the same kind of result here. This is a marathon, not a sprint. We all need to remember that.
There's not much really to argue with here.. All good points.. I will say however that this was only one game of six.. We can only play the teams that are in front of us.. Getting a point on the road in arguably your toughest game of the round is nothing to sneeze at.. Obviously it came at the midnight hour but it came none the less.. I just find it hilarious that Arena gets so much crap for actually getting a draw on the road in difficult circumstances.. I'm not saying Arena is immune from criticism because some of his decisions tonight were real head scratchers, but then again I did my fair share of head scratching during the World Cup when Arena came out with different players and different formation changes from game to game and that worked out pretty good..
Didn't get to see the game, but I agree that it's time to get some younger players in there. Hopefully we can lock up advancement by the 3rd or 4th game and give the Gavens, Arnauds, etc. a chance. Boca has played LB before, hasn't he? He has the speed to be on the outside and we know he can cross extremely well. And Pope has played on the outside before, at the 98 WC if IIRC. Wouldn't mind seeing a Defense of Pope-----Gibbs------Berhalter-----Boca. Or gibbs on the right I think it's time for Zavagnin to get a serious look at D-mid. He may not be the destroyer, but he takes care of the ball. Think we need that more right now. The offense will be fine. It's just a matter of finding the right combination and getting people healthy.
We could not string passes together We were athletically inferior the entire night We did not get it done in the last third of the field. We did all of this in what will be the toughest game of this phase. We got a tie. We can only go up from here. "You do whatever you need to do to survive." Public Enemy, 1990
And if you guys had lost, what would you have said, it was a fluke why do you need a cool stillnight and a friendly venue... Reveiw the tape jamaica played well.. You guys didn't bring your a game... In Nov. we'll see what happens ...in your cool still night and friendly venue... Lucky Damani didn't come guns out like his boy Andy did. Or kings 2 shots didn't go just wide. El salvador is winning the game in Panama. You boys better get a win in fox./ mass.
To all the people who told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I called on Brian Ching for nats, all I have to say is!
The US is doing fine, this was just a tough road game against a pretty strong opponent and it was a good game (the stats on ussoccer.com show 12-12 in shots with the us having more shots on goal...probably the US had the better of the chances) and by 2006 we will (unless injuries cause problems) have a very, very competitive team that should be able to, on a good day, compete and have a good chance of defeating anyone in the World Cup. Consider the following lineup: Goal: Keller/Freidel/Howard (can't go wrong, arguably the US is the world's #1 at keeper) Back four: Pope, Boca somewhere, ? on others (outside back is weak, but maybe Dolo is good enough, and maybe Gibbs can play? someone new (Spector??) by 2006? Berhalter?) mid: LD, Gaven (he'll be proven by then, he's just plain good), Beaz, Reyna, JOB (pick 3 of the 5 and throw in Zavagnin/Armas/someone else for Dmid when needed, also maybe Mathis) up top: McBride/Ching (McBride is still better, he can shoot from outside as evidence recently, and is still GREAT with his head...he would've buried Ching's header miss no doubt), then someone new to complement the big guys With this talent and depth the US is going to be a serious force in '06. Honestly, I think with this group the US is better than the average European team and at least, and probably better than, the likes of England, Portugal etc. and can compete with the French and Spanish (but who knows what France will look like in '06). The players in WCQ are often often different from those on the actual WC roster, so seeing cobi jones should not alarm anyone...all that matters is that we qualify and that the talent in the above list is there for 2006 and healthy and we will be in very good shape to make a run at the cup. Does anyone else have an outlook as positive as this? I honestly think that the US could, with a little luck, win the cup in 2006 if the right players come to the forefront between now and the WC. What do you think?
CHING!!! I hope this secures him as a regular Nat team member. I would rather have him in there then several others. I think Donovan should have been in the midfield instead of Armas, and Ching in there from the start, but I guess we went in a little more with the defensive posture. What a relief. I just finished watching the game that I had recorded.
It's not the draw. It's the players and way it was achieved. Also, player position, substitute pattern, etc. tonight was just plain poor. Again, I have never trashed BA, it just was so bad tonight. Stewart, Armas, Heduk on the field at the same time in 2004. I can't let it go. There lack of ability means more work for others and less breathing space. good teams can play conservatively and hold the ball making it harder for the oppositon. How could we not give possession away with these guys out there? How could we expect to take the pressure off? How can you expect better passing forward to help out everyone? You can't. That's the problem. you can't. Start one OK, even two, but all three? Infreakinexcusable. You have no option other than to play very defensively. You give the other team less to worry about. It just sucks. Get a tie, but do it in a way that gives you more of a chance to win while giving the opposition more to worry about. BA did neither. There are 1-0 games that are close and there are 1-0 games that one team dominates but can't score more. This was a lucky tie that BA made easy for the opp. No progress here. We get our point, but no progress at all. Stuck in neutral.
Shiaaatt...i can't even read all of the posts post game...all I have to say is that this was one of the worst managed games I have seen since before world cup '02. To start Donovan in a forward role (one which he has played very little of with the NATS this year, and even less of with the 'Quakes is just unexplainable). To start Stewart is just disgusting. He didn't even start against Grenada for GOD's sake. Heyduk was just awful. I didn't disagree with bringing Jones into the game, but not for another midfielder...bring him in for a defender when you have nothing else to lose. Bringing Ching on was the best thing Da Bruce could have thought of. Of course, he should have started. And, I am sorry, Reyna just cannot finish. All in all, I am happy with the result in a very hostile environment. I just really have to call into question the selections.
In defense of The Bruce, he made two good moves tonight: 1. He put Ching in. I was shouting for that move to be made in the 1st half. 2. He took Stewart out. Of course, Ching should have started, and Stewart should not have, so his good moves just cancelled out those two screw-ups. They didn't make up for the fact that EVERYONE seems to have figured out, EXCEPT BRUCE, that Donovan should be in midfield instead of at striker. Almost everyone agrees that LD is the best American player. But at forward, he disappears for way too much of the time. And when he gets the ball, does he turn and attack? No, he dumps it off to the midfielders or tries to thread a pass through to the other striker. He tries to play as a midfielder when he's put in as a forward. But when he's put in as a midfielder, and he's facing the goal rather than with his back to it, he attacks and shreds like he did against Kansas City Wednesday night. So come on, Bruce. Pull your head out and see the light. Donovan is your #10, your a-mid, your samurai sword. Don't leave him up top and force him to wait for someone to serve him the ball. McBride is coming on at about the 60' mark for Fulham, and it's becoming increasingly clear that should be his role with the Nats. Mull this over. The complaint is that he cannot go the full 90, and he doesn't do well against a physical defense any more. Well, make him your 2nd half Super Sub, and he comes in for 30 minutes of dangerous attack against a tired back line. Ching and Casey are the heirs apparant as big targets. Mathis, Wolff, and Arnaud are good options at the other striker position. I don't have as many complaints about Armas as others. I think having Donovan as the a-mid will relieve Armas of the duty of feeling obligated to work on offense, leaving him back to do what he does best. But I still would rather see Mastro there when he's healthy. P.S. If you haven't seen The Seven Samurai yet, do not delay. Rent it -- I promise you won't regret it. One of my all-time favorite films.
Wow, it's a good thing we didn't have Eddie Gaven or Brian Mullan available tonight, since we had no need for offense late in the game... Possible silver lining: Maybe this will convince Bruce that Stewart and Armas are no longer useful members of the USMNT without us having to have suffered a major disaster.
What I would have said is that we were beaten by an inferior team...which, as you might agree, happens from time to time. As for bringing our A game...well, in qualifying, the A game rarely surfaces, though I bet it will in the next round against Mexico. Wonder if we'll see the Boyz there. Meanwhile, when Jamaica can get a good cross in, or work one touch combinations inside the area with regularity, give me holler.
Lucky goal by Ching. 99 times out of a 100, that defender slides in, and blocks the shot, or at least deflects it. But hey, it counts. My problem with that sequence is why didn't Landon shoot it himself? He had time. I noticed several times tonight he had chances for shots, and layed them off for others (instructions from Bruce?) LD needs to be in the midfield, and run at people. He, and the team, are much more dangerous when he is dictating the play, rather than hoping others find him on the end. Stewart shoud never, ever wear a Nats. jersey again. Horrible. What does experience matter if you suck? Look at all the RMs just in MLS that would have been better... Mullan, Gaven, Ralston, Olsen even... hell, Hejduk and Cherundolo are better RM options than Stewart.
The result was no different from any other result we've ever gotten in Kingston for a competitive match, but somehow the chasm between what US fans expect and what they actually get from away WCQs continues to grow. We had never even scored an away goal vs. Jamaica in a WCQ before. Could we have played better? Yes, we could have played much, much better. But I distinctly remember the same thought -- and the same hue and cry from the peanut gallery as we have tonight, whether it was from the original USSoccer e-mail list or Metrofan or BigSoccer -- after Kingston '97, The DC Debacle '97, Kingston '01, and even Foxboro '01 (and we won that game). Just because they didn't make the '02 finals doesn't mean they suck. When the game matters, Jamaica has proven to be as tough an opponent for us as Mexico. Take the damn point and get back on the plane.
Is anyone aware of a soccer forum that doesn't have such a bitchy sorority vibe to it? I paid my dues, but I'm not one of the chicks with the LV handbags.
I respect Jamaica as a team, and to be damn honest, was quit scared of this game. I am very happy with the result and was jumping around my living room like a school girl winning her first beauty pageant when Ching netted. At the same time, I was very disappointed with some of BAs selections. I will not doubt the best coach in US history, but I will question him in this game. Why not go for the kill?
I used to think like this, but I learned. BA doesn't have the ability to think like this. We need someone to Harding these guys now and make BA look like a "genuis" for getting new players in there. Can hear it now as the tire iron marks are still on Stewart and Armas shins. "That's the great thing about Bruce, he's not afraid to try new players in pressure spots. Who would have though these guys could have played like this in this situation. Kudos to you Bruce. Great job." The poster who put up all of the players ages before really made me sick. That alone should be enough to question BA. Freaking ridiculous. Justify & rationalize all you want. Just freaking ridiculous. How can you look at that group and not question him. Can you imagine if DMB and LD hadn't proven to be just too obvious and good for Bruce. We are talking no brainers here. Would Waldo, Tab or Harksey still be out there? Don't laugh. Maissoneuve maybe? Holy freakin cow. In one night I 've gone from a guy who lets BA do his thing ,with little doubts and worries along the way , to a guy, who when he thinks about it starts to wonder...Is he staying to long? Are we giving him way too much slack and cover because he has very little pressure, and we appreciate what he has done in the past too much? Are we being blinded by the light? Does he even have the guts to make a change with one of "his" guys if they don't get hurt. Seriously guys. Don't be complacent here. Is he at the end of his rope at this point? I'm starting to think new ideas are needed. I can't sit through qualifying with these types of tactics, confidence and ideas. I say again, the tie is great, I'm happy with it, but the way we achieved it is absolutely terrible. A little sickening. Just look at the ages again. Just look and think if DMB and LD hadn't flat out forced his hand. Scary.
That's the problem. Not enough people doubting him. Should be more scrutiny for a guy who has had some major hangups come close to overshadowing all of his great achievements.