Where do you stand?

Yeah, I also don't have a clue what is accomplished by Wenger going "upstairs". The club needs a complete overhaul of the football operation. Not just a reshuffling of desks and chairs.

 

It's obvious to anyone that Wenger isn't a man that likes to make tactical changes until it's much too late. He will rarely (if ever) do a halftime substition, and will stubbornly stick to his game plan -- this to me is his largest failing.

At the same time it's clearly to me that he has been one of the best talent evaluators out there not named La Masia. I guarantee you that if he leaves the club, he will be working upstairs for one of the other big clubs -- not as manager, but in some other fashion.

The game may be passing him by, but that is no reason to kick a man to the curb when he has been around successful football this long. I love Arsenal cause we're not some oil baron's playtoy to boast about during dinner with his other oil buddies. There's a certain way this club plays -- and that's why I like them. Everyone coming out of the woodwork to be loud and gloom and doom and asking for his head makes me laugh.

Aside from the physio concerns, how does the operation need an overhaul? This is a ridiculous statement -- do you want to sell all our players and get new ones? Perhaps we should hire AVB to continue his workful work for our team too?

The saying goes that you don't know what you have until you lose it -- that will apply here. The possibility of that happening here if we lose him completely are high.

 

I would prefer that Wenger go out front....preferably in bronze and let us all go in a new direction. Up.

 

Has the scouting really been that great recently? He has had a long time to find a striker, better options at d-mid, etc. and he hasn't done it. I think the scouting needs a big overhaul as well. Also, it seems incredibly to me that the academy produces few first teamers from a young age. Its a good finishing school for already talented teenagers, but why can't it produce more from the younger ages like a Dortmund?
Full overhaul needed.

 

Even Dortmund haven't produced that many players from their youth teams, but they have been excellent at picking up players around 19-21. Most of their current first team that you might think of as homegrown players for them (Lewandowski, Subotic, Hummels, Bender, Gundogan, Sahin, Kuba) were all bought relatively cheaply around that age range.

The only real star that has come up all the way through the youth team recently was Gotze, but developing players of his quality from 10 years old or so all the way to the first team is incredibly rare.

I agree the problem still lies with scouting though. Arsenal used to be good at discovering the next Lewandowski or Gundogan at the point where Dortumnd picked them up for just a few million euros.

We've still done alright in that aspect with players like Ramsey, Ox, and Theo, but for the most part we're now in a position where we're having to try and buy that level of talent one step too late for ridiculous amounts of money. It doesn't help either that the clubs we're competing with in that market can make huge losses every year without batting an eye.

 

The ridiculous statement is "you don't know what you have until you lose it". That is not a business plan. Fear of failure is no reason not to make a change.

And where is this "best talent evaluators out there" bit coming from? When is the last time Arsenal has uncovered a class player? Arsenal has not been ahead of the competition in player scouting for years.

Wenger has his strengths and has given the club brilliant moments and will be remembered fondly. But nothing lasts forever. Even cold November rain.

 

I hear Slash is a master talent evaluator . . .

 

Oh great, thanks, you now just made me think that I am part of the Arsenal version of the 14-year making of Chinese Democracy.

 

Ramsey, Ox, Theo, Gnabry, Wilshire -- maybe not world class, but then again, there are few academies where players stick around until first team. There's promise in our youngsters -- granted we didn't get them when they were 10, but still before they 25 million. Everyone wants us to be oil barons and buy all our players, but we will never ever be close to being able to keep up with bag of inifinite money MC or Chelsea.

Football is a business I get it -- but the idea that you will blow the whole thing up and it'll be better is no plan as well. I think most supporters that want Arsene to go don't accept the possibility that it could get worse -- possibly for a long time.

I am not saying that Wenger shouldn't leave, because I think it IS time -- but it would be overwhelmingly stupid to kick him to the curb.

 

I want him out. I have for 2 years. But I don't think Arsenal will kick him to the curb. The only way Wenger's reign comes to an end is on his own terms. The only way I, as a fan, can influence that is by creating a lot of noise that -- hopefully -- Wenger sees as a sign that his time has come to walk away.

It shouldn't have to be that way, but that's the way it is, because Wenger is bigger than the club right now, and that never should have happened in the first place.

 

looks like i really do need to bring back the mental strength meter...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/cazorl...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

I in particular felt that this was a good indicator that something is up and will happen this summer. good or bad

 

It's been hard reading or writing anything Arsenal-related this week but here are my thoughts, loosely organized.

• I didn't watch the match. But this is by far the most serious and damning loss of the season. I can understand, to a point, that this team would get blown out by oligarch or petro-dollars...there's an excuse there. What is the excuse for getting entirely manhandled by a team that is not even close to competing with us on the same financial ground? This team is poor. There are no extenuating off-field circumstances that help to explain how, on every single tactical or strategic or athletic level, this team was soundly beaten.

• I know I've been outspoken about this point, but injuries are NOT an excuse for a match. Rather, injuries must be considered as an integral part of a managerial regime. Arsenal's treatment of both rehabilitation and pre-habilitation is obvious--this team, unlike other championship teams, comes bursting out of the gate almost every year and then suffers a horrendous collapse, usually first in November, and then subsequently again in late February continuing well into March. Arsene Wenger is responsible for the training and conditioning of this squad and is thus responsible for the atrocious injury rehabilitation policy as well as a conditioning policy which frequently sees our teams tank at the end of the year, regardless of injuries. If changes aren't made here we will never win the league, no matter how many players we buy.

• I think the narrative of this season is being poorly framed. I haven't necessarily seen it on BS, but a pretty consistent opinion amongst Arsenal fans right now is, "If we get fourth place and the FA Cup this will have been a successful season, all things considered." Let's break this down. Arsenal have spent more days on top of the league without being champions than any other team in the Premier League era except for Newcastle in 96. They have spent more time on top of the table than the Invincibles did. This is not a team scrapping against the big boys, over-achieving to get that fourth place trophy just in the nick of time. This is a team that had a clear path to winning the league, but has instead imploded in spectacular fashion. Part of this is down to the relative weakness of our early schedule compared to the late schedule...but only part. This Arsenal team has choked, plain and simple. Given the weaknesses of our competitors, and given the lead we had, this was Arsenal's title to lose. And we lost it. That I or others expected this--that we probably weren't strong or deep enough to go on and win the league--does not excuse the fact that we didn't achieve it. This was a collapse that--while not as sudden or epic as Gallas in Birmingham--is worse than what we suffered in 2008.

• So, Newcastle in 96 spent the longest at the top of the table without winning the league, then Arsenal this year. The third-place team? Arsenal in 07/08. If any other manager presided over two of three biggest collapses in Premier League history, what would happen to him? I don't want to cast aspersions over Wenger's ability as a manger, although there are certainly questions you can ask about these last couple of months. What I mostly want to emphasize is the complete lack of accountability at Arsenal right now. It seems that nobody, from the players to the manager to any of the staff, are accountable for their performance. It HAS to be emphasized that Arsenal, as a club and institution, is larger than Arsene Wenger. This means that EVERY FCUKING DAY he comes in to the office, he is competing to keep his job. And I truly feel that if he were to feel this, it would be transmitted down throughout the whole rest of the hierarchy.

• There is an obvious argument for why Arsene should keep his job. Given tremendous financial restrictions, he has able to remain marginally competitive with the other top teams in the league. Also, there is the tantalizing prospect that that this might be the FIRST year that the financial gloves are off, to an even greater extent than last year's window. It is super intriguing to see what Wenger could do with a large amount of money on the transfer scene--but most likely, nothing would happen. I have said this before, and for a couple months my belief was suspended, but because of Everton it is well and truly back: the present-day Wenger regime is not the right fit for this club going forward. Either he changes and adapts to the new world of football--both on-field tactically but most importantly off the field with training--or he must leave.
  
  One more thing: the whole "if you want him to leave, tell us who should replace him" argument is a canard. It pre-supposes that everyone knew who Wenger was when he came from Nagoya Grampus 18 years ago and became the greatest Arsenal manager of all-time. An interesting theory is that the new manager, or possibly assistant manager, has already been hired. And it's not Steve Bould--it's Andries Jonker. I also feel fairly strongly that Wenger leaving his contract extension until the end of the summer is his perfect set-up for exiting the club.

 

That's a fair assessment. I think both metrics reflect poorly on Arsenal this season. "Days at the top" is useful because it shows how consistently and for how long we were competitive.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful post, I found it very even handed. It can be hard to encapsulate one’s thoughts on this topic in any given post because, at least for me, there are so many moving parts and emotions.

I am not taking any issue with what you said but rather wanted to expound a bit– at the risk of obviousness and repetition– on the issue of accountability. I hear what you are saying to be sure, but it is apparent to me that the main locus of accountability is among the Owner, the Board, the Chief Executive and Wenger alone. And the results around which that accountability is focused are the bottom line, and or maintaining a steady culture of respecting that bottom line. I know there is more to it than that, enter the problem of encapsulating all sides within a post, but in short they are generally pretty happy with everything including themselves, and I think they are well and ready to ride out the hit of missing CL and crashing out of the FA Cup in some spectacular fashion should that occur. It is going to take a steady dose of bad-times to get any real change.

My current thinking is Wenger either bows out in a David Letterman-like its-time for-someone-else-to-have-a-crack-at-this gesture, or he signs on for a short two, or maybe even one-year deal to make the statement– I can fix this and it is not about me keeping a fat paycheck.

Either way it is Wenger that is going to call the shots, and maybe that is fitting in some small measure. I am sure however, especially given the man’s stubbornness, it is not doing me any good to fret about it anymore because nobody but him is calling those shots– because they don’t want to yet– and certainly that is ill-fitting in some large measure.

 

Agreed. The title never was ours. We stayed in the race, but a few teams only were a few points behind us. I never got the impression we were going to win the league, and the winter transfer window solidified that.

 

Put me in the group that thinks a 4th place finish and the FA Cup accounts for a successful season. We only choked if you thought the league was won around Christmas. We sprinted the first 13 miles of a marathon. We weren't built for distance, so the league always was a long shot. We drew against Bayern, which was our death sentence in the CL. So, those really weren't on the table. Winning the FA Cup while maintaining our CL elgibility sounds like success, especailly given how long it has been since we have won a trophy.

Agreed. I like Wenger like every Arsenal fan, but I think we know where he will get this team. Like I said earlier in the post, a 4th place finish and the FA cup is a success under him. I don't think we'll get much better than that. If you are happy with where we are, then you should want him to stay. If you aren't, then you probably should want a change. A change won't guarantee success, but staying the course doesn't either.

 

Listen, I totally agree with you. By the time the summer window closed I was elated because of Ozil but couldn't see us progressing much as a team because of all of the obvious shortcomings, most notably lack of depth or quality at striker. I said this from the beginning--we wouldn't win because we didn't have any excellent strikers in the squad.

That doesn't make me less bummed out about the eventual outcome. I just include Wenger's follies in the transfer window as part of the evaluation of him as a manager, season to season. The two can't be seperated from each other, which is why I was pessimistic, but am still willing to criticize and lament the fact that "we are who we thought we were" even after we end up in the spot I thought we would end up in. Meeting low expectations is not succeeding.

Having said that, at this point, to win one trophy will be huge. The FA Cup is absolutely vital right now.

 

We were always a dark dark horse and I never had anything but a small hope but whatever I had disappeared after the Everton home match - Dec 8th. Can't say why, and I know it was early but while some saw it as an acceptable result, I saw a real test to our title credentials, and we flubbed our lines. We had a mini slump after that game and a real good run after that but this season, for me, in that game we needed to show what we had. The winter transfer window I had no faith in.

 

That was the first blow for me. The knockout was the home 0-0 against United.

 

This was the match when I knew Arsenal werent shit this year.

Getting tonked by Liverpool hurt and was damaging, but that 0-0 was the worst result of the season until Chelsea decided to not use lube

 

Always amazed by players who play like shit in the run in and then give quotes that we have to win something or else they will leave.

 

Midgets, both of the mental and actual variety, seem to be a AW specialty, sadly.

 

For me, it was simply a matter of League position, ie, being 7-10 points clear vs. being 2-5 points.

With the benefit of hindsight, it's worth noting that in addition to the much-maligned performances against the top of the table, we've also struggled against the better-than-average cohort as well. This has flown under radar a little bit because of 3 wins against Spurs and the early win against Liverpool who were expected to finish 6th or so. But in the League we've had a loss and a draw against Everton, a loss and a draw against United, a win and a draw against Southampton, and two wins against Spurs, 11 points from 8 games. And the only one where you think we probably could have done better is the 1-1 against Everton.