Best Start to Season Ever for Quakes

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by sportsfan-quakes, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. sportsfan-quakes

    Mar 19, 2005
    San Jose
    This was mentioned on the TV broadcast I believe, but in case you didn't hear it - this 6-1-1 start to the Quakes season is their best start ever in MLS. The closest start the Quakes had in their first 8 games was in 2001 and 2002 when they started 5-2-1 (W-L-D) both years.

    Interestingly, in 2005 when they won the Supporters Shield, they started very slow, going 2-2-4 in their first 8 games and not getting their 6th win until their 15th game.

    I know various aspects of this have been discussed in other threads, but I thought it would be good to have a separate thread to discuss this topic. What do you think the main reasons are for the Quakes hot start this year? Do you think the team can continue at close to this pace and fight for the top spot in the West all year, or do you think this is a flash in the pan?

    My thoughts - while I don't expect them to continue at this pace, I believe that they can continue to play well and be in contention for first place in the West all year, as long as they don't suffer any key long term injuries (losing Wondo, for example). A note - the Quakes are averaging 2.375 ppg, that is higher than any team in the history of MLS. Only 3 teams in the history of MLS have averaged 2.0 ppg or better - in 1998 LA averaged 2.125 ppg, in 2001 Miami averaged 2.04 ppg, and in 2005 San Jose average 2.0 ppg. Added to this history is the fact that the Quakes have to play a schedule loaded with games against very tough competition in the West, as compared to those teams in the past. It seems highly unlikely any team in the West could continue to play at a 2.0 ppg pace or better this year. Although it won't be terribly surprising if KC can, given their schedule is so loaded with games against weaker Eastern Conference opponents.

    This year, the Quakes are not just winning, they are playing very well and they seem to be getting better each week. The Quakes have shown they have enough depth on defense and in the midfield to deal with injuries, but I think they could struggle without Wondo or if both Gordon and Lenhart are out for an extended length of time. As people have pointed out in various postgame threads, one of the noticeable traits of this team is that there are quite a few quality players that can bring different things to the game. So the team can adapt to different situations (bunkering defenses, fast paced teams, possession oriented teams) and still play well.

    So trivia question - what member of the current Quakes team was on the 2005 team that averaged 2.0 ppg and won the Supporters Shield?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. clashcityrocker

    Mar 12, 1999
    In the shadow of RFK
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I can't imagine it's not Ramiro Corralles.

    I'm sure that the pace is going to slow at some point - it would be awesome to finish with more than 2 points a game, but it's far more likely that they fall short. But last year and the year before, the last team in the playoffs had 46 points, and we're almost half way there with only a little more than a quarter of the season gone. That's a nice cushion to have.
     
  3. krudmonk

    krudmonk Member+

    Mar 7, 2007
    S.J. Sonora
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    or Wondolowski, of course
     
  4. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Ramiro was in Norway in 2005. Wondo moved to Houston with our winning Quakes in 2005.
     
  5. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then-rookie Chris Wondolowski (Ramiro Corrales started playing in Norway in 2005).

    I definitely remember the 2005 team's slow start. It seemed that the start of their MLS Supporters' Shield run of form a bit later on coincided with both Dominic Kinnear finally moving Dwayne DeRosario from forward to attacking midfielder and Alexi Lalas' departure to the then-MetroStars (leaving Kate McAllister and Ken Freccero as co-interim GM's for the rest of that season).

    There've been several similarities between this year's squad thus far and those of The Golden Age, such as the roster's depth, its effective one-touch passing and the constant defensive effort similar to the one that then-Miami Fusion F.C. head coach Ray Hudson described of the Quakes as "a swarm of angry bees".

    GO SAN JOSE EARTHQUAKES!!! :cool:


    -G
     
  6. clashcityrocker

    Mar 12, 1999
    In the shadow of RFK
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The other big change in 2005 that kicked off the run was Rico Clark settling in at d-mid - when we traded Goose for him he was still a right back, IIRC, and played there but not particularly well when he got here. I don't know who was ahead of him on the depth chart then - Mulrooney had already left to Dallas, right? Was that when we drafted Danny O'Rourke and tried him there?
     
  7. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yes.
     
  8. FireEllingerAgain

    Jun 2, 2007
    SLC
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey guys. An RSL fan here. I know they've both been around the league for a bit, but I am so impressed with Khari Stephenson and Marvin Chavez. Both are All Stars in my book. In the RSL-SJ game a week ago, (the one with the Olave phantom red card foul) but the whole game I was thinking "Is this Stephenson guy American? Why is he not on the national team?" and then I realized he's Jamaican. He tore us up. And wow, I saw the 2nd Lenhart goal from yesterday and that was all Chavez. The way he created enough space for himself in a double-team out near the sideline like that was world class, not to mention the cross itself being right on the money. Guys like that are why you are in 1st place right now. Enjoy it.
     
  9. FUAEG

    FUAEG Member+

    Oct 18, 2005
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You saw Khari at his best.
     
  10. quakesfollower

    Oct 10, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Agree with this - Khari is streaky, but he can play really well in spurts. The trick for Frank is to use him in situations where Khari can do what he does well. Anecdotally, it seems like just when you get used to him playing well after he's done so in a couple of games is when he drops off noticeably.

    But totally agree with FireEllingerAgain's comments on Chavez - I still can't believe Dallas traded him away. I know we gave them allocation $$ (allegedly a fairly significant amount), but it was well worth it.

    And thanks to FireEllingerAgain for the kind comments!

    As for the original points comparing this team to the 2005 Quakes, it is an interesting comparison. I'm pretty sure that the starting midfield at the beginning of the year was O'Rourke and Clark centrally, flanked by Mullan and Davis. But O'Rourke and Clark didn't work together, and I think that Clark got benched first and O'Rourke and DeRo may have played together for a game or two before it ended up being DeRo and Clark. As people said, a big part of the run later in the year was the gelling of DeRo and Clark in the middle.

    Also, remember that the Quakes had several injuries to key guys - Ching was out for a lot of games with various injuries, as was Brad Davis. Dayak and Waibel both went out with injuries for most of the year. The Quakes traded for Kelly Gray who replaced Waibel at right back, and for Mark Chung, who replaced Brad Davis when he was out. IIRC, the starting lineup on opening day was:
    Onstad, Waibel, Robinson, Dayak, Barrett, Mullan, O'Rourke, Clark, Davis, Ching, Cerritos.

    By the summer it was:
    Onstad, Gray, Robinson, Califf, Barrett, Mullan, Clark, DeRosario, Chung, Cerritos, Moreno

    So 5 of the guys who started for most of the games were not in the starting lineup at the start, which could explain the slow start.
     
  11. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Yes, of course it was Wondo, his rookie year in 2005. And although he was a Supplemental draft pick who barely saw any action that year, there was one particularly perceptive poster who was already picking up some signals in the air about Wondo, even early in the season that first year, as well as correctly predicting the position at which he'd be most effective. :)

    Missed a little bit there by thinking that since he was a track star he'd have good speed. He was a middle distance runner: great stamina, speed - not necessarily.
     
  12. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the scary thing is....Wednesday's game is very win-able. Not to jinx or anything. DC's playing well too, but they lost a centerback and hopefully we'll be recovered from our jetlag and they won't.
     
  13. sportsfan-quakes

    Mar 19, 2005
    San Jose
    Wow - impressive that you not only made that post, but that you remembered that you made it and found it!

    I remember watching the Quakes reserves some in 2005 that Wondo was good but not anyone that jumped out at you as a sure fire star after watching. He'd score goals and, much like now, just seemed to be in the right place at the right time. He was very nice and took the time to talk with fans and all, though, so he became one of my family's favorites.
     
  14. DotMPP

    DotMPP 'Quakes fan in Stumptown

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 29, 2004
    SE Portland, OR
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Triggered a Jethrow Tull tune there... "... The translation wasn't clear" (Hot Night in Budapest)
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    The remembering wasn't that hard. The finding was a bit harder. I think that our forum does not go continuously through "The Relocation Era". Something happened after the relocation where we became part of "candidate cities" and I don't know where the "old" Quakes forum is, or if it became part of "candidate cities" or what. But if you search at the "MLS Clubs" level you can find old stuff like that. If you search in the current Quakes forum, I think you will only get back to 2008 or 2007 when we were no longer a "candidate city".
     
  16. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Well -- you know what they say: Even a broken clock is right twice a day...




    ;)
     
  17. fadedtoblack

    fadedtoblack Member+

    Nov 6, 2007
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then...
     
  18. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    ...and yet,

    "No man was ever wise by chance." - Seneca :)
     
  19. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Touche' Jazzy.
     
  20. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First off, thanks for this excellent thread.

    OUR team are clearly playing much better than before, and with largely the same group. We have a few new players, but mostly, we're starting guys that we had last season:

    - - - - - - Lenhart
    - - - - - - - - - - - - Wondo
    Shea - - - Baca - - - Chávez
    - - - - - - Croninja
    Rams - JM - - Marvin - Beta
    - - - - - - TheBusch

    Only three of these guys are new, you can maybe count Lenhart because we didn't have him for most of last season.

    Now I think that Shea, Chávez, and Marvin add tremendously to our quality, and having Lenhart back helps hugely too. However, we are actually playing a different style from most of last season. We did play possession at the very end of last season, with more or less the same formation and many of the same players, but much of the year we played ugly boot-ball.

    I think two other big pieces of this season's success are some of the vets getting together and deciding to improve everyone's attitude, and someone is pressuring Frank to employ different strategies and tactics. (That "someone" could include: Kaval, JD, Ian, Mark, or Jason.) Last season, even during that dismal 13 game winless streak, Frank didn't change much about what we were doing. That's weak. When you're team are in the tank, that' when you make changes. You don't keep going with the same losing strategy and lament that you're losing.

    And we're more fit than last season!

    And let's be honest, we've had some comparatively easy teams early this season: Hosers, CounterRevs, Onions.

    Can we keep this up? Probably not. We'd have the best record in the history of the league if we do, so I think it unlikely. (And I'm OK with that!) I do expect us to continue playing well, for the rest of the season. We may not stay on top of our conference, but we can continue to play attractive, attacking soccer! The schedule is going to get tougher, we're going to face more adversity, but, we are doing massively better than I had dared to hope, and infinitely better than I feared.

    So:

    • A few better players.
    • Much better coaching. (Includes better fitness.)
    • Some "easier" teams early.
    I'm psyched!

    GO QUAKES!!

    - Mark
     
  21. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    BTW -- to the OP: Now you've jinxed us!!!! :mad:












    :D
     
  22. quakesfollower

    Oct 10, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Mark - Either you are counting Chavez twice because he's so good, or have Bernardez's name wrong here :D

    As for your premise that the team played "ugly bootball" soccer for most of last year, I don't agree. I've seen you post this many times, and I was curious as to whether you were right or my recollections were more accurate. So I went back through all of the Matchcenters for last year and looked at the possession stats, which should be a reasonable indicator of how the team was playing (not perfect, as they can be biased by game situations, but it's still a pretty good indicator).

    Anyway, for the first half of last season (17 games, up through the July 6 game at Chivas), the Quakes only had the possession advantage in 2 of those. And one of those 2 was the LA game where the Quakes were up a man for over a half.

    But then, in the second half of the season, the Quakes won the possession battle in 11 of the final 17 games, including a stretch of 8 of 10 from July 9 to Sept 10. Ironically, during that 10 game stretch the Quakes only won one game (the last one, on Sept 10). That was part of the 13 game winless stretch the Quakes suffered.

    So what does this tell us? I think it says that the Quakes laid the groundwork much of last year for the style of play that they are showing this year. They learned how to pass on the ground and maintain possession, even though they were losing or tying. Much of this was probably because they were without any target forward for all but 3 of those games, as Lenhart left the team and Gordon was hurt. So that may have forced the issue of keeping the ball on the ground. What they couldn't do last year was play good enough defense (they allowed 14 goals over that 10 game stretch) or score enough (only scored 7 goals in the 10 games, and only scored 5 goals over the 9 game winless stretch).

    I think this year the big difference from the second half of last year is that the defense has been much better, particularly in closing out games, and the speed on the wings has helped to create more good scoring chances out of the possession, rather than just passing the ball around with no creativity. Finally, I think Baca and Moreno have brought more creativity in the midfield to help create scoring chances out of the possession (Baca played well last year for a rookie, but he mostly played the safe pass rather than going forward).




    As for this point, the Quakes have had a pretty tough schedule. If you look at this thread and view the latest post it says that the Quakes have had the 9th most difficult schedule so far this year. That doesn't sound like much, but many of the teams at the top of the tables have had easier schedules (SKC, RSL, Vancouver, DC United), and Seattle's schedule has been about the same difficulty as the Quakes. The only team in the top half of either table with a more difficult schedule is New York. (The methodology used for this table is ppg earned by opponents played, either home or away).

    The Quakes schedule over the next 4 weeks is tough because they have midweek games thrown in, and play some tough opponents and teams currently on form. So I do agree it will be interesting to see how they adapt to that change. But the good news is that the team has already made 3 of the 5 road trips to Eastern teams, and 3 of the 4 really long (Cross country to the Eastern timezone) trips. So the travel part of the schedule gets easier.
     
  23. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry, I have to disagree. Seattle in Seattle, RSL, and NY aren't easy teams. Revs are a mid level team. Vancouver hadn't lost and had given up no goals when we played them. This has not been an easy schedule.

    Better fitness? May be. We have two forwards who have had groin issues and old leftback with a calf problem. Really, the biggest difference is better and improved players...

    The better players have allowed for Frank to have confidence in subbing earlier. Additionally, a better midfield has put less pressure on the defense and changed the style of play to less kick and run.

    Really, look at Beta, Baca, and Morrow. All three are young, dynamic players who have helped change the dynamics of the team. Add Chavez and Shea and our pace and workrate is causing problems for teams.

    It's a long season, but a good start will take as far from a coaching and team confidence perspective. Some teams will fall off the pace and others will come on at the end of the season. Should be a fun ride!
     
  24. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ouch! Just one of my many failings. Yes, I meant Victor. Don't know why I almost always get his first name wrong. ugh!

    Ugly is in the eye of the beholder, don't you think?

    There were plenty of times last season where other teams let us kick the ball around deep in our own end. Surely not the whole match, but it stretches the possession stats a little bit.

    See there! Ugly football. Surely you think we looked bad against 10 man Philly right? And against NYJ? Did we play well? We never play well against the GoatShaggers. Not sure what it is about their team, but we rarely do well against them. We played RSL tough, and we ripped DCU once last year, but also looked horrible against them in a second. (I re-watched half a dozen matches from last season just before the start of this season.)

    When you watched those games. That awful, depressing, lengthy stretch of badness. Did you think that we were playing well, but just not closing the deal? Did you expect us to score a goal at any moment? I expected us to lose, I was surprised when we pulled out a tie. Mind you, I wanted us to win, so I was bummed when we didn't.

    At the end of the season yes. In the first two-thirds of the season, no. We looked awful most of the time. Sure, there were a few bright spots. We even looked good the first several games, inspite of losing. But it's really only the last ten games, from when Baca first started playing a-mid for us that we can see the roots of this year's success. You're welcome to disagree, but I'm not buying your argument.

    I'll have to pick this up later.

    Go Quakes!

    - Mark
     
  25. quakesfollower

    Oct 10, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You said UGLY BOOTBALL, not just ugly soccer. And you've said the same thing in many threads, repeatedly saying that until this year all Frank was coaching the team to do was play direct, longball type soccer. Now you can change your story to just say that you just meant "ugly", and you include possession in that category if they're not scoring.

    There's no way that in 11 of the last 17 games that the Quakes won the possession battle just because other teams were letting them pass the ball around. Just admit it, you're wrong here - the team started to play possession oriented soccer in the middle of last year.

    At least now you'r saying the last third of the season, but I think I've demonstrated it was throughout the last half of the season that the foundation was really laid.
     

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