Re: Re: World´s legendary teams That Dutch Milan was really a great team. And I don't have much comment on the rest of your post. You´re right.
In my opinion, legendary is a description not to be taken lightly, especially when it comes to a national team.
Best clubs of all times? 1st - Santos (1958-1965) 2nd - Juventus (1980-1985) 3rd - Peñarol (1959-1966) 4th - Internazionale (1963-1966) 5th - AC Milan (1988-1993) 6th - Vasco da Gama (1948-1958) 7th - Manchester United (1967-1969) 8th - Bayern Munich (1973-1976) 9th - Boca Juniors (1962-1965) 10th - Ajax (1970-1973) 11th - Sao Paulo (1991-1994) 12th - River Plate (1985-1987) 13th - Flamengo (1980-1983) 14th - Real Madrid (1955-1960) 15th - Independiente (1972-1976)
Interesting list, however any justification why the bold clubs (Ajax 70's and Real 50's) are so low ... (IMO they could have made from 5-10)
I still think Holland 98 and Holland 2000 were better than France. Obviously, France had more luck in these tournament and we suck in penalties.
Based on this list, I came to this conclusion: 1950-1970: Golden generation 1970-1990: Silver generation 1990-2000: Bronze generation 2000-2010: The decline of football Should we apply the same to music and films as well ?
We can apply it to anything that can't actually be measured. In any measurable sport or activity progress has been made. Still, nostalgia's not what it used to be.
98 : Holland was the best team offensively, France was the best team defensively. Defense makes you win tournaments more frequently than offense does. 2000 : France was much better balanced than two years before. It's hard to argue Holland or any other team was better than them at that time, though the margin was minimal.
1-Musics: 70, 80's and 60's = GOLDEN, Silver and Bronze respectively 2- Films: 70's Golden, 50's Silver and 80's Bronze. 3- Fashion: (AGAIN) 70s was GOLDEN, 60's Silver and that was IT! (80's were the worst ever) and 2000's were better but pretty much copycat and enhanced of the 70's So in these categories of arts I agree there is a serious decline in quality (artistry) to be repalced by technology and special effects: Avatar 3D's (well) at present 2010+ and the whole series of actions type from 90's to 2000's (Conan's Rambo's to Friday's the 13th part XIII LOL) ===================================================== Now back to Football (Soccer): Since it's not an "art" root, it suffered a lesser degrees in quality per se but it did ... starting from mid 2000's and on For me: 60's were GOLDEN, 70's Silver and 80's Bronze - 90's would take the "the most sought and popularity era" - sorry I can not rate the 50's. Football o 2000's were all about "running", "physical challenge" (on air or on grass) and kept " Strikers isolated" - in trade of quality of passing, dribbling, attacking schemes, clean tackles ... - GOSH I hope the success of this Barca, (and Spain's last 3years) will lead the trend of "quality first" back to football! =================================================== It sounds like "nostalgia" but that's how the WORLD TURNS (the Ozone became thinner and the Greenish started fading out) Until now, I can still remember some lyrics and melody of the Classic rocks (70-80s), I just can not swallow some whole hiphop songs nor that I could recognize any word out of them - except the F* and Bitchees words .... SADLY
Yes, there is. Ajax, undoubtebly, helped revolutionize football with the introduction of "Total Football". I always hear in ESPN and other soccer channels about commentators and fans trying to claim a team playing appealing football is playing "Total Football". I almost laugh and cry at this ignorance... "Total Football" is a system in which every player (except the highly specialized goalkeeper) is capable to perform any of the duties of his other 9 teammembers. That means a left-back could easily switch places with a forward and perform his duties with no problems (and the same way around). What the club did with the system was nothing short of a masterpiece: they used the system by constantly switching players, confusing the hell out of opponents which allowed Ajax to take full control of the space in the field, shortening or widening to their pleasure. If we were talking about Europe's legendary teams, Ajax would be a top five easily. But we are talking about worldwide legendary teams, aren't we? And, as visually appealing as the team was, it ultimately proved to be a failure with the culminations of the failures being the defeats during the 1974 and 1978 world cup finals. The system itself was simply not strong enough on its own to win in 1974. Against Argentina, the dutch stopped trying to play "Total Football" and approached their opponents far more directly which made them more of a match. The latter final was responsible for showing all of the weaknesses the system had, which were glaringly great. The first is that it required that EVERY player be tactically and skillfully proficient, something a handful of teams can ever say to have had at one point in time. Generations like that are extremely hard to come by. The second is that a system like that required great uses of energy so only strong individuals could hope to help pull it off. Against determined opponents, this system can prove extremely taxing on the team. Despite its ultimate failure, the system greatly influenced world football as other teams and leagues took certain feautures from the system itself to implement it on their own. Total football itself took features raging from Zubeldia's Estudiantes, Puskas' Hanvod, La Grande Inter, etc. If you can understand Ajax, then Flamengo should be easy to understand. The Flamengo I listed is, basically, a far less constant version of the Ajax during the 70s. Their style was characterized by simply constantly attacking, helped by the fact that Flamengo's golden generation were at their peak. Every player was from Junior to Zico was extremely skilled in their duties. The talent alone more than made up for Carioca team's notorious trait: the lack of any real discipline. That is something Brazil took along in 1982 and, combined with some pre-WC bad luck, proved to be our downfall. This might sound like a similar version of Santos. However, our club has always been characterized by our motto since the late 20's: tecnique and discipline. Os Santasticos were the epitome of that motto during their 17-year reign. As mentioned above, if we were creating a list of European legendary teams, Real Madrid would be much higher. Again...this is just the world. In another forum, another user criticized the fact that Os Santasticos is constantly mentioned as the best club of all times, including by Gabriel Hanot himself, the main pusher for the creation of the European Cup. He rated the team way above La Quinta del something and Hanvod. Antonio Simoes of Benfica said it best: the 1970 Brazilian team is regarded as the best national side of all times...but that teams was merely a confirmation of the playing style that Santos has been perfecting and practicing since the late 20s. Of which it finally was proven successful during the 14 years previous to that WC. We helped revolutioze football and probably helped saved it after the way the European Cup and Copa Libertadores was being played during the late 60s. Anyway, the user I mentioned insisted on Real Madrid due to FIFA's list, rolleyes which most people know not to give to serious a thought, and that he feels they made a mark. I ask...what exactly did they mark? Because the answer would be...nothing. They had a good and decent team and won the EC five consecutive times. That's it. As a matter of fact, Santiago Bernabeu openly stated that he NEVER wanted his Real Madrid to face Os Santasticos out of fear of being left in ridicule. After a very dubious 5-3 win with some shady refereeing (and this was just a friendly, mind you), Bernabeu said that he don't ever wanted our team back in Madrid ever again. In 1965, Real Madrid agreed to come to Buenos Aires for a few friendlies against Boca Juniors and Racing. When a Boca boardmember past the message that they gotten Jorgy's reply to accept the invitation(our president), Bernabeu very quickly (lol) started ranting to the Argentines that they would only come down if they didn't have to face our club. A team that scared of us doesn't deserve top ten...never mind that they didn't mark anything, revolutionized nothing, their NT was a disaster in WCs, etc. We eventually got them, though...3-1 in Santos in 1997.
I wouldn't exactly put it in that term. The real reason behind the sudden drop of interest in the sport deals more with the centralization of the top players in one continent (guaranteeing that almost no nation will get to see its top players), Sepp Blatter and globalization. 1970-1990 was some good times. Only from 1990 to 2002 did it went from "great" to "good". The WCs in 2006 and 2010 were simply shitty....
As was the one in 2002. Anyways, 2010 was not so bad as I felt there was a return to grassroots, improvisational football.
The best team in the history of argentina is considered to be River Plate of from 1941-1945, La Maquina. The team was legendary and my grandfather used to go and watch them play...Muñoz, Moreno, Loustau, Perdernera, and Labruna were the stars. Here is a video of the great Alfredo Di Stefan talking about them: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTvNpPpRps"]CONVERSANDO CON D. ALFREDO DI STÉFANO, por Carlos Fernández - YouTube[/ame]
For my money, these rank above all others : 1970 WC Brazil squad 12 games (qualifying & finals) , 12 wins, goals : 42 - 9 1951 - 54 Magical Magyars Hungarian team 35 games, 1 defeat, goals : 143 - 38 They won the 1952 Olympics, were the first "foreign" team to beat England on British soil (6-3 at Wembly, 7-1 in the return match in Budapest)....unfortunately for them, the only match they lost was the 1954 WC final against West Germany.
The 1958 Brazil was better than 1970, as it had Pele, Garrincha and Didi playing together. It is true that Garrincha in 62 and Pele in 70 were slightly better, but the 58 team had them playing together.