Single Table Standings

Discussion in 'Seattle Sounders FC' started by bright, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. wheezl

    wheezl Member

    Mar 25, 2009
    Livorno, Italy
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't done any mathematical analysis but eyeballing strength of remaining schedule, we might have a chance.

    Of the hard games, two are 6 pointers.
     
  2. kaged27

    kaged27 Member

    Sep 6, 2006
    the 'Boro
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    RSL just nipping us on PPG with three games in hand.

    I took a quick look at the top 5 teams in the west (LAG, FCD, RSL, SEA, COL) and how the rest of the schedules line up and to follow up on what wheezl said, it does in fact look good. Hard (for me anyway) to do any kind of objective measurement of how these schedules compare, but it looks like SSFC has the easiest remaining road schedule, which should be helpful considering the USOC and CCL games that still remain. Of course only Salt Lake doesn't have to worry about any extra games so it's not like Seattle's alone there.

    For the purposes of this analysis, the top 8 I used are these 5 in the west and the top 3 in the east on PPG (PHI, CREW, SKC). Anyway, here's a basic overview of the remaining schedules.

    Seattle Sounders
    Points: 41 (PPG: 1.708)
    Games Remaining: 10 (6 H / 4 A)
    Games vs. Top 8: 4 (3 H / 1 A)
    Opponents PPG: 29.40 (30.67 H / 27.5 A)
    Key Games: @ Dallas; vs Columbus; vs Salt Lake; vs Philadelphia

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Points: 48 (PPG: 1.920)
    Games Remaining: 10 (5 H / 4 A)
    Games vs. Top 8: 4 (2 H / 2 A)
    Opponents PPG: 29.67 (29.0 H / 30.5 A)
    Key Games: @ Kansas City; vs Colorado; @ Columbus; vs Salt Lake

    FC Dallas
    Points: 42 (PPG: 1.75)
    Games Remaining: 10 (4 H / 6 A)
    Games vs. Top 8: 4 (1 H / 3 A)
    Opponents PPG: 28.20 (29.25 H / 27.5 A)
    Key Games: @ Philadelphia; vs Seattle; @ Kansas City; @ Colorado

    Colorado Rapids
    Points: 37 (PPG: 1.480)
    Games Remaining: 9 (4 H / 5 A)
    Games vs. Top 8: 3 (2 H / 1 A)
    Opponents PPG: 29.11 (33.0 H / 26.0 A)
    Key Games: @ Los Angeles; vs Dallas; vs Salt Lake

    Real Salt Lake
    Points: 36 (PPG: 1.714)
    Games Remaining: 13 (4 H / 9 A)
    Games vs. Top 8: 5 (2 H / 3 A)
    Opponents PPG: 29.69 (27.0 H / 30.89 A)
    Key Games: vs Philadelphia; @ Seattle; vs Kansas City; @ Los Angeles; @ Colorado
     
  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
    TEAM  PPG
    LAG   1.92 
    FCD   1.75 
    RSL   1.71 
    SEA   1.71 
    PHL   1.50 
    COL   1.48 
    CLB   1.48 
    SKC   1.30 
    DCU   1.29 
    CHV   1.26 
    ---------------
    NYRB  1.25 
    HOU   1.22 
    POR   1.18 
    SJE   1.09 
    NER   0.91 
    CHI   0.86 
    TFC   0.80 
    As already noted, RSL barely edges us in PPG. What I find most interesting though is that the Red Bulls have fallen off the back of the playoff race. I guess this goes to show what happens if you way overpay for your starters and ignore your depth.
     
  4. patrickwsu

    patrickwsu Member

    May 7, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I thought New Jersey's season goal was the Emirates cup. Now they can just rest players for next year.
     
  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
    Team  PPG
    LAG   1.92 
    FCD   1.72 
    SEA   1.68 
    RSL   1.64 
    CLB   1.54 
    COL   1.54 
    PHL   1.48 
    DCU   1.36 
    SKC   1.30 
    HOU   1.29
    ------------- 
    CHV   1.25 
    NYRB  1.24 
    POR   1.13 
    SJE   1.04 
    TFC   0.88 
    NER   0.88 
    CHI   0.87 
    VAN   0.75 
    
    After RSL's loss, the Sounders are now in 3rd place by PPG. The playoffs are really starting to shape up with, realistically, only Chivas and NYRB having a chance at knocking someone out of the playoffs so they can get in.
     
  6. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  25  [b]48[/b]   13  9  3    35 20  15
    Dallas       25  [b]43[/b]   12  7  6    33 26   7
    Seattle      25  [b]42[/b]   11  9  5    35 27   8
    Colorado     26  [b]40[/b]   10 10  6    37 32   5
    Columbus     24  [b]37[/b]   10  7  7    27 23   4
    Salt Lake    22  [b]36[/b]   10  6  6    30 17  13
    Philadelphia 23  [b]34[/b]    8 10  5    29 22   7
    New York     25  [b]31[/b]    6 13  6    39 35   4
    Houston      24  [b]31[/b]    7 10  7    30 29   1
    Chivas       24  [b]30[/b]    7  9  8    30 26   4
    -------------------------------------------
    Kansas City  23  [b]30[/b]    7  9  7    32 30   2
    D.C. United  22  [b]30[/b]    7  9  6    33 33   0
    Portland     23  [b]26[/b]    7  5 11    29 37  -8
    San Jose     24  [b]25[/b]    5 10  9    26 32  -6
    Toronto      26  [b]23[/b]    4 11 11    25 46 -21
    New England  24  [b]21[/b]    4  9 11    23 36 -13
    Chicago      23  [b]20[/b]    2 14  7    25 32  -7
    Vancouver    24  [b]18[/b]    3  9 12    25 40 -15
    As of Sunday, August 14, 2011.
     
  7. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  26  [b]51[/b]   14  9  3    37 20  17
    Seattle      26  [b]45[/b]   12  9  5    36 27   9
    Dallas       26  [b]43[/b]   12  7  7    33 27   6
    Colorado     27  [b]41[/b]   10 11  6    39 34   5
    Columbus     25  [b]40[/b]   11  7  7    29 24   5
    Salt Lake    23  [b]36[/b]   10  6  7    32 20  12
    Kansas City  25  [b]36[/b]    9  9  7    36 31   5
    Houston      26  [b]35[/b]    8 11  7    34 32   2
    Philadelphia 24  [b]34[/b]    8 10  6    30 24   6
    New York     26  [b]32[/b]    6 14  6    41 37   4
    -------------------------------------------
    Chivas       25  [b]31[/b]    7 10  8    32 28   4
    D.C. United  24  [b]31[/b]    7 10  7    34 35  -1
    Portland     25  [b]29[/b]    8  5 12    32 41  -9
    San Jose     25  [b]25[/b]    5 10 10    26 34  -8
    Chicago      25  [b]24[/b]    3 15  7    28 33  -5
    New England  26  [b]23[/b]    4 11 11    26 39 -13
    Toronto      27  [b]23[/b]    4 11 12    25 48 -23
    Vancouver    25  [b]18[/b]    3  9 13    26 42 -16
    As of Sunday, August 21, 2011.
     
  8. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  26  [b]51[/b]   14  9  3    37 20  17
    Seattle      27  [b]48[/b]   13  9  5    42 29  13
    Dallas       27  [b]46[/b]   13  7  7    36 29   7
    Colorado     28  [b]41[/b]   10 11  7    39 36   3
    Columbus     26  [b]40[/b]   11  7  8    31 30   1
    Salt Lake    24  [b]39[/b]   11  6  7    33 20  13
    Kansas City  26  [b]36[/b]    9  9  8    38 34   4
    Houston      27  [b]35[/b]    8 11  8    34 33   1
    Philadelphia 24  [b]34[/b]    8 10  6    30 24   6
    New York     26  [b]32[/b]    6 14  6    41 37   4
    -------------------------------------------
    Portland     26  [b]32[/b]    9  5 12    33 41  -8
    Chivas       27  [b]31[/b]    7 10 10    32 30   2
    D.C. United  24  [b]31[/b]    7 10  7    34 35  -1
    Chicago      26  [b]27[/b]    4 15  7    30 33  -3
    San Jose     26  [b]26[/b]    5 11 10    27 35  -8
    Toronto      28  [b]24[/b]    4 12 12    26 49 -23
    New England  26  [b]23[/b]    4 11 11    26 39 -13
    Vancouver    26  [b]21[/b]    4  9 13    27 42 -15
    As of Sunday, August 28, 2011.
     
  9. Eindecker

    Eindecker New Member

    Aug 20, 2011
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Interesting how our record is so similar to LA's. We're really the only two teams this season that can dominate on the road, with many teams still struggling to get more than one or two wins on the road. Makes me even more sick of losing to fart sniffers like Donovan.

    Someone make a Dallas v Sounders 8/30 thread.
     
  10. gblfxt

    gblfxt Member

    Aug 24, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    how do we finish this and win?
     
  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess we could call this week live by the sword, die by the sword.. After stealing 3 points from SuKC a couple of weeks ago and dashing FCD's hope of pulling away, FCD returns the favor this week and keeps the race for second place a 2 point race.

    Code:
    Team   PPG 
    LAG    1.96 
    SEA    1.78 
    FCD    1.70 
    RSL    1.63 
    CLB    1.54 
    COL    1.46 
    PHL    1.42 
    SKC    1.38 
    HOU    1.30 
    DCU    1.29
    ------------- 
    NYRB   1.23 
    POR    1.23 
    CHV    1.15 
    CHI    1.04 
    SJE    1.00 
    NER    0.88 
    TFC    0.86 
    VAN    0.81 
    
     
  12. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  26  [b]51[/b]   14  9  3    37 20  17
    Seattle      27  [b]48[/b]   13  9  5    42 29  13
    Dallas       27  [b]46[/b]   13  7  7    36 29   7
    Salt Lake    25  [b]42[/b]   12  6  7    35 21  14
    Colorado     28  [b]41[/b]   10 11  7    39 36   3
    Columbus     26  [b]40[/b]   11  7  8    31 30   1
    Kansas City  26  [b]36[/b]    9  9  8    38 34   4
    Houston      27  [b]35[/b]    8 11  8    34 33   1
    Philadelphia 25  [b]34[/b]    8 10  7    31 26   5
    New York     26  [b]32[/b]    6 14  6    41 37   4
    -------------------------------------------
    Portland     26  [b]32[/b]    9  5 12    33 41  -8
    Chivas       27  [b]31[/b]    7 10 10    32 30   2
    D.C. United  24  [b]31[/b]    7 10  7    34 35  -1
    Chicago      26  [b]27[/b]    4 15  7    30 33  -3
    San Jose     26  [b]26[/b]    5 11 10    27 35  -8
    Toronto      28  [b]24[/b]    4 12 12    26 49 -23
    New England  26  [b]23[/b]    4 11 11    26 39 -13
    Vancouver    26  [b]21[/b]    4  9 13    27 42 -15
    As of Sunday, September 4, 2011.
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
    [B]Team  PPG[/B]   [B]Playoff[/B]
    LAG   1.93     W1
    SEA   1.78     W2
    FCD   1.70     W3
    RSL   1.68     WC1
    CLB   1.54     E1
    COL   1.46     WC2
    SKC   1.37     E2
    PHL   1.36     E3
    HOU   1.30     WC3
    DCU   1.29     WC4
    --------------
    NYRB  1.23 
    POR   1.23 
    CHV   1.15 
    CHI   1.04 
    SJE   1.00 
    NER   0.88 
    TFC   0.86 
    VAN   0.81 
    
    Not really much in the way of changes. RSL's win converted one of their games in hand to three points and put them within punching range of FCD. LA's draw converted their game in hand to 1 point, so the Sounders drew a little closer in the SS race. SKC pulled ahead of Philly in the Eastern race thanks to their draw and Philly's loss.
     
  14. soundersFCfan

    soundersFCfan Member

    Dec 15, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Yoshou. I like the PPG format with the playoff codes (showing how the playoffs would be seeded if the season ended today). Nicely done!
     
  15. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not the purpose of this thread. You can go to the league web site and see the playoff positioning tables. The purpose of this thread is to display the league standings in a single table since this season (and last season) is contested with a league-wide balanced schedule. The single table is a way for fans who appreciate fairness and common sense to essentially fantasize over what should-have-been had the league not implemented such a silly playoff format, and also follow the Supporters Shield race which -- due to the league-wide balanced schedule -- is now more worthy of the "champion" tag than MLS Cup.

    Also, PPG is not dense enough information-wise. The single-table format tells a more detailed story. If a team has 3 games in hand, for instance, and is 9 points behind, you can tell that they will need to win all three games. PPG does not expose this information. Some people have gotten pedantic over the "unfair" rankings in the single table because some teams have games in hand. But the story of how a points gap can be closed is more important than where teams stand in the table at any particular time, and it nicely frames our perceptions of each week's schedule of games.
     
  16. soundersFCfan

    soundersFCfan Member

    Dec 15, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sheesh! Relax! I'm aware of the table on the league web site and I share all your opinions about the idiotic playoffs and related qualification system. I totally agree with the SS being more worthy (and, anecdotally, I ran into Tyson Wahl yesterday who also agrees). I would MUCH prefer a single table, end-of-year-best-of-table champion like the rest of the world, which is why I visit this thread (so I can dream)!

    I like your full single table format a lot but I also like seeing the PPG table along WITH the single table as it adds a dimension the full single table doesn't (PPG), which is a very predictive statistic as we can plainly see.

    And I don't see why I can't thank a poster for providing some interesting additional information even if it is slightly off topic. I figure if the mod posts it here it can't be that far off topic.;)
     
  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's why I asked if you'd be interested in adding PPG to your single table, bright. PPG has some value in that it is a good way to compare where teams that have a different number of games actually rank in comparison to each other. Clearly it has some limitations because a team isn't going to convert those games in hand at the same rate their PPG shows, but just showing points is also deceptive as it shows the rankings as if the games in hand are losses. I also didn't want to devalue the good work that you're doing by including the information from your post in mine.
     
  18. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no deception. The number of games are listed with the number of points, so it is easy to derive the nature of the gap between the teams. Like I said in the other post, there is no reason to read so much into the table positions as if they are "rankings". They are not. The table is not intended to convey anything so subjective as "rankings". Ultimately, the season is a points chase, so all that ever matters is the points earned.

    That said, I don't think your PPG posts really detract that much from the focus of this thread, mostly because a lot of people have used it to chat about the bastardized playoff race anyways. Personally, I would like the thread to be a testament to how awesome these past two seasons have been for long-time soccer fans. We finally got our league-wide balanced schedule, and despite the league continuing with its habit of making a mockery of things, some of us can still acknowledge what the balanced schedule means.
     
  19. wheezl

    wheezl Member

    Mar 25, 2009
    Livorno, Italy
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That too. ;)
     
  21. Vander Decken IX

    Feb 13, 2011
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Why not just go to firefan2001's thread in MLS General?
     
  22. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  28  [b]55[/b]   15 10  3    40 22  18
    Seattle      28  [b]48[/b]   13  9  6    43 31  12
    Dallas       28  [b]46[/b]   13  7  8    36 31   5
    Salt Lake    26  [b]45[/b]   13  6  7    37 22  15
    Colorado     29  [b]41[/b]   10 11  8    39 37   2
    Kansas City  28  [b]40[/b]   10 10  8    43 36   7
    -------------------------------------------
    Columbus     27  [b]40[/b]   11  7  9    32 33  -1
    Philadelphia 27  [b]36[/b]    8 12  7    35 30   5
    Houston      28  [b]35[/b]    8 11  9    34 36  -2
    D.C. United  25  [b]34[/b]    8 10  7    37 35   2
    -------------------------------------------
    New York     27  [b]33[/b]    6 15  6    42 38   4
    Portland     27  [b]33[/b]    9  6 12    34 42  -8
    Chivas       28  [b]31[/b]    7 10 11    32 33  -1
    San Jose     27  [b]29[/b]    6 11 10    29 35  -6
    Chicago      27  [b]27[/b]    4 15  8    30 35  -5
    New England  28  [b]27[/b]    5 12 11    32 43 -11
    Toronto      29  [b]27[/b]    5 12 12    30 51 -21
    Vancouver    27  [b]22[/b]    4 10 13    28 43 -15
    As of Sunday, September 11, 2011.
     
  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couple of changes on the PPG side of the standings. With FCD and Seattle losing this weekend, RSL jumped from 4th in the West to 2nd, Seattle down to 3rd, and FCD down to 4th. In the East, DCU has passed Philly for 3rd.

    Code:
    Team   PPG POS
    LAG   1.96 W1
    RSL   1.73 W2
    SEA   1.71 W3
    FCD   1.64 WC1
    CLB   1.48 E1
    SKC   1.43 E2
    COL   1.41 WC2
    DCU   1.35 E3
    PHL   1.33 WC3
    HOU   1.25 WC4
    --------------
    NYRB  1.22 
    POR   1.21 
    CHV   1.11 
    SJE   1.07 
    CHI   1.00 
    NER   0.96 
    TFC   0.93 
    VAN   0.81 
     
  24. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
                 GP Pts    W  D  L    GF GA  GD
    Los Angeles  29  [b]58[/b]   16 10  3    43 22  21
    Seattle      29  [b]51[/b]   14  9  6    46 31  15
    Salt Lake    27  [b]48[/b]   14  6  7    38 22  16
    Dallas       29  [b]46[/b]   13  7  9    36 32   4
    Colorado     30  [b]41[/b]   10 11  9    40 39   1
    Columbus     29  [b]41[/b]   11  8 10    35 37  -2
    -------------------------------------------
    Kansas City  29  [b]40[/b]   10 10  9    43 37   6
    Philadelphia 28  [b]39[/b]    9 12  7    36 30   6
    Houston      30  [b]39[/b]    9 12  9    38 39  -1
    New York     28  [b]36[/b]    7 15  6    43 38   5
    -------------------------------------------
    Portland     28  [b]36[/b]   10  6 12    37 42  -5
    D.C. United  26  [b]34[/b]    8 10  8    37 38  -1
    Chivas       29  [b]31[/b]    7 10 12    34 36  -2
    Chicago      28  [b]30[/b]    5 15  8    33 37  -4
    Toronto      30  [b]30[/b]    6 12 12    32 52 -20
    San Jose     28  [b]29[/b]    6 11 11    30 37  -7
    New England  29  [b]27[/b]    5 12 12    32 46 -14
    Vancouver    28  [b]22[/b]    4 10 14    28 46 -18
    As of Sunday, September 18, 2011.
     
  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
    Team  PPG   Pos
    LAG   2.00  W1
    RSL   1.78  W2
    SEA   1.76  W3
    FCD   1.59  WC1
    CLB   1.41  E1
    PHL   1.39  E2
    SKC   1.38  E3
    COL   1.37  WC2
    HOU   1.30  WC3
    DCU   1.30  WC4
    ---------------
    NYRB  1.29 
    POR   1.29 
    CHI   1.07 
    CHV   1.07 
    SJE   1.04 
    TFC   1.00 
    NER   0.93 
    VAN   0.79 
    
    Not much movement in the Western Conference, but Philly jumped ahead of KC and DCU and DCU is clinging on by a thread to the last playoff position.
     

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