New countries admitted to ACL in 2011 ?

Discussion in 'Asian Football Confederation' started by Ross2006, May 11, 2010.

  1. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Do you think that we will see new countries in the ACL next season ?

    The countries looking to join are Iraq, Jordan, Malaysia, Myanmar, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Singapore, Tajikistan, Thailand, Vietnam and Yemen

    Anyone got any info on the prospects of any of these countries actually being admitted ?

    Pakistan seems a non-starter but could Jordan, Thailand, Malaysia or Vietnam get in ?

    Any idea what is happening in Syria, Bahrain, Kuwait or Hong Kong (who are not on the list of applicants) Are they likely to meet the criteria any time soon ?

    Criteria for entry
     
  2. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Hong Kong is unlikely to qualify. We fail the criteria in so many ways...
     
  3. YomaTaung

    YomaTaung Member

    Nov 16, 2008
    Princeton, USA
    Let's not rule out Myanmar. Looking at the criteria the Myanmar National League (MNL) meets the AFC Cup criteria comfortably; meets ACL criteria for 2011-2012. We currently have 11 teams with another possibly joining by 2011-2012 season. Not sure about the auditable P&L criteria - honestly I am unsure how some of the current ASEAN/Middle East team meets this one. So, I suppose if they can so can the key Myanmar teams! We recently enacted e-visa process, so getting into the country is quite easy. We also have multiple daily flights from Bangkok. We have three international level stadiums with a new one being built.
    We are hosting two groups of AFC President's Cup tournament as we speak. I see this as a learning experience for us to be a host (meeting all logistical challenges) and a potential evaluation by AFC to join the Cup/Champions League.
    Finally, our league standard of play is quite good and certainly at par with clubs from ASEAN and South Asia. ACL curve might be a little steep. We have seen Thai/Vietnamese/Indonesian clubs struggling against the East Asian giants. At the current level, we will probably perform similarly.
    So, for Myanmar in 2011-2012: Cup absolutely; ACL hopefully!
     
  4. nimaa

    nimaa Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    all I know is that we need less arab teams in West Asia
    It's a lonely place for us Iranians. It always seems like they're ganging up on you behind the scenes :D

    edit: I wish Tajikistan could join!
    Two Persian countries against a sea of arabs lol
     
  5. Blue Lou

    Blue Lou Member

    Nov 13, 2006
    Are you really an Argentinian Hong Kong based Evertonian?
     
  6. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    according to the 2009 assessment the biggest shortcomings for HK were "business scale" and stadiums. are these still the main problems ?

    how many teams are fully pro ? is there any discussion about HK clubs joining the Chinese league structure - do people there want to keep a separate league and national team ?

    big changes in football in Myanmar this season !

    one problem may be the the technical standard (playing quality) - it needs to be in the top 34 countries for the AFC Cup and the top 23 for the ACL. That seems to rule out ACL ?

    here is the 2009 ranking (which only goes up to 21)
     
  7. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I am a Hongkonger. I support Everton in the EPL, small budget great manager and good young players and Argentina in World Cup or Copa America, there are so many great players from that country.

    If Hong Kong could turn out so many exciting young players like Everton or Argentina I would be over Mars.
     
  8. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Except South China, TSW Pegasus, Tai Po and maybe Kitchee, most teams will not pass the "business scale" problems. The teams are pro, but some of them pay very low wages, which may not be possible next year if the minimum wage bill is passed by the legislators.

    The league started home and away format this season but so far attendance results have been mixed. Some clubs want to go back to the "double entertainment" format when two games are played back-to-back, with no real differentiation on home and away. But this is not what AFC recommends.

    You bet there were talks about HK clubs joining the Chinese league. Not long ago HKFA chairman said he got CFA to agree to provide a slot in the Jia League (=first division) for a HK club. The HK fans are very much against it. Even Steven Lo of South China doesn't think it is a good idea for now. What will actually happen remain to be seen.
     
  9. YomaTaung

    YomaTaung Member

    Nov 16, 2008
    Princeton, USA
    You are correct. Last I saw Myanmar was just outside top 23 (25?). Perhaps we may make the list by year end? Another ACL criteria seems to be promotion/relegation in the pro league. We don't have it (yet). By the same token I don't know if Indonesia and Vietnam have it. I know for sure Australia's A-League does not. So, this is a criteria we cannot meet - but not sure if it is enforced.
    Thoughts?
     
  10. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    why are the fans against it ? Is it because they want to retain a separate league (and national team) ?

    yes the relegation issue is interesting - reading the criteria it is listed as a minimum requirement, yet Australia at least is certainly not going to have it any time soon. Maybe because you have a new league they will give you some leeway.

    I wonder if "within the top 23 MAs" refers to the FIFA ranking of the national sides, or is there a separate ranking for the leagues ?

    How is the new league doing by the way ? Are the teams drawing bigger crowds ?
     
  11. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    There is so much criteria to be met for the nations that are not currently in the ACL setup.

    The AFC should maybe not tinker with the system as much now and just promote teams that are winning the lesser cups, the AFC Cup and Presidents Cup.

    Personally, I was against the whole ranking procedure when it was first mooted as my nation Thailand simply couldn't compete off the field, but they could compete on the field.

    Since they didn't make the cut, the ranking system has helped Thailand sense some goals off the field and on the field they are now playing in a competitive competition, if they win it, the go to ACL, if they don't, then stay at AFC Cup. Of course, they still want to be involved in the ACL, but the days of a Thai team like BEC making the final or Thai Farmers winning it have long gone. To cause a one match upset is more there goal. Playing AFC Cup is something they can win, and once they do, then they have earned there place at the top, but shouldn't earn there place at the top because of off the field achievements in my opinion
     
  12. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Kuwaiti clubs are all amauter and payed by the state. Nothing the Kuwaiti football association does fills any criteria. In fact, the only thing Kuwaiti football association does right is in getting suspended for acting like boys.

    Bahrain, league system just isn't there. Constant changes, again they are more amauter.

    Syria, not sure why they haven't submitted to be included, i'm sure they have the system.

    Hong Kong, everything is just flawed and there was a recent report out on the game. The AFC can't really entertain them at ACL level until they meet there first goals to begin with.

    But lets get serious, no nation will meet all the criteria, so what is the AFC asking for? Progression, and this is happening in leagues such as India, Thailand, Myanmar. But i haven't personally seen any other leagues progress, they are still what they were before - sitting still.
     
  13. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Hong Kong football fans will weep loudly the day Hong Kong loses its league and its national team.

    Some people think the Hong Kong team is useless so why bother. But Northern Ireland and Wales have not been winning much silverware either, have they? It is a matter of history and tradition.

    Commercially, the Hong Kong league is struggling to survive, but not many wants it becomes amateur. All the clubs are paid for by their bosses with no govt aid. I cannot see it survive in the long run but as long as the bosses pay, the league will continue.
     
  14. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Any idea what % of the teams in Bahrain and Kuwait are fully professional ? I'm assuming the top sides at least (Al-Kuwait, Al-Riffa etc) are fully pro ?

    What was the Kuwaiti FA suspended for ? And what was the Hong Kong report about ?

    Syria did OK in the 2009 assessment, in fact had more points than Uzbekistan or Qatar. Maybe the league isn't fully professional ?

    How do people in HK feel about the PRC national team - would they cheer for it in the Asian Cup ?
     
  15. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    HK people noticeably cheered for it in the 2002 World Cup and 2004 AFC Asian Cup. But by and large most people don't feel anything for the PRC team, largely due to the numerous football corruption cases in China.

    Most HK people'd rather support England. In fact I think most people know the English NT better than the Chinese NT. This is partly due to the long history of English football broadcasts in HK. I remember we had English FA Cup finals live in HK back in the 70s on free TV.
     
  16. Angsa

    Angsa Member

    Aug 26, 2008
    Hong Kong
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Like I said before, FIFA and AFC should probably allow some of their smaller members to combine their leagues. They cannot expect the small members to achieve the same level of commercial performance as the big members like Japan, China or Australia.

    Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Brunei and Taiwan can form a league among them with the top teams granted ACL places.

    Singapore and Hong Kong leagues struggle to sustain 10 clubs, Macau, Brunei and Taiwan have no pro leagues. Join the five of them together and that will be a good league.

    They could do something similar in Europe, Oceania, the Persian Gulf, etc. For example, Malta, San Marino, Andorra, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg etc can join up and form a league, too.
     
  17. ashindia

    ashindia Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    India,Hyderabad
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    I would advise the same to our Maldivian brothers
     
  18. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    No one club in Kuwait is professional, they are all state employed as far as I'm aware. So work for the government first and play football second. No surprise why certain teams do well because the state 'park' the players where they want.

    The Kuwaiti FA got suspended because of internal wrangling. Kind of a coup happened in other people wanting to run the show. They even got there teams banned at the semi final stages of the Gulf Club Cup.

    Even just a couple of years ago, they couldn't even determine which team got relegated from the top flight, so they kicked off with 9 sides instead of the usual 8.

    In Bahrain, the clubs are more of organisations than professional football clubs. Each team feeds the handball squads, vollyball squads etc, so the focus is on more social activity for the respective areas than it is on going gung-ho pro. In fact, Al Muharraq who won the championship last year didn't even enter the AFC Cup this time round, so no chance of Bahrian getting into ACL.

    The HK government report can be found here about the state of the game: http://www.hab.gov.hk/file_manager/...on_and_sport/Executive_Summary_(Football).pdf
     
  19. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    What progress has there been in Thailand since the 2009 assessment ? A big problem then was buisness scale. Is the league now fully pro and have attendances increased ? Maybe Thailand could get two spots in 2011. Performance in this year's AFC Cup has been good

    Does anyone know anything about the state of the game / amount of progression since 2009 in any of the other applicants - Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Oman, Yemen, Tajikistan, Pakistan(West Asia) and Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia (East Asia)

    Seems to me Myanmar, Thailand and maybe India have a chance of getting in next season
     
  20. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Yes the league has gone fully professional, although Thai football officials would like you to think it went pro in 1996, it didn't until after the big kick up the backside by the AFC.

    What changed? Well, clubs had to become public limited companies and show their assets, the big concern for most clubs is that they were banks or of some other company build. These clubs had to pull out(in fact, Thai law states banks can't be professionals, so they had no choice).

    Clubs also relocated, as previously the league was very pro-Bangkok, with company teams all fighting for the same fan base, most have re-settled into the provinces and interacted with the communties. Most clubs didn't have anything to lose in re-locating as they had no fan base to begin with - the only concern now, is that a few clubs keep moving and moving until they hit the jackpot.

    The Regional League was also introduced as a 3rd tier which features provincial teams from all other Thailand and with it, possibly even better supported clubs are the 3rd level than the top level.

    Support has increased in the stadia, but, still at this moment in time, people still follow what we call the Big four more than they still follow the local sides, but attendance are on the up, but 4 or 5 clubs are getting into the 10,000+ plus mark on a regular basis, but others are still getting left behind.

    So, some figures look good for the AFC, but the AFC must also consider mid-week matches which do attract a lot lower attendance as most games are played whilst the majorty of the population are at work. This is slowly changing in some areas that are now using the AFC specified Lux lights for later kick-offs (6pm).
     
  21. Ross2006

    Ross2006 Member

    May 15, 2006
    Ireland
    Club:
    Bohemians Dublin
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Which are the Big 4 clubs in Thailand by the way ? Are you not confident of getting automatic entry for next year ? Looks promising to me

    Teams in Asia linked to government bodies : Singapore Armed Forces and Thai teams like Police Utd, Thai Farmers Bank and (pre-relocation) Thai Tobacco Monopoly. Do / did these teams actually have many real fans (beyond people linked to the army etc, or neutrals who go to games) ?
     
  22. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Oh now, i'm pretty confident of getting automatic entry to next years tournament, but will this tell the whole picture of Thai football?

    For instance, the top four clubs can make the AFC Criteria, the other 12 couldn't, but they could make the ACL as they could mount a challenge in the league. What happens if these clubs did, would Thai clubs carry on building on what they have done in the last two years or stop. Most clubs would probably stop.

    As for the top four in Thailand, Chonburi, the best run club by far in Thailand, kind of like Man United, hey will always be there or there abouts for the title.

    Muangthong United, the kind of Chelsea of the bunch, rich, extravagant, have a kind of attitude to the game. Bringing something totally different to the game in the whole region.

    Bangkok Glass, the former Krung Thai Bank club (well practically), always there or there abouts.

    BEC Tero Sasana, the original daddies of the league, currently dwindling a little. They were the king pins when nobody else thought about football. Now getting caught up, but have no answer to the challenges

    As for clubs run by governement bodies, just look at the Royal Thai Navy, a club based in Rayong but never had any feel for the place, suddenly, professionalism comes around, they rebrand to Rajnavy Rayong (Rajnavy means Royal Thai Navy). Rayong suddenly feel they have a club that represents them but also has the history of the Navy.

    On the otherside, TTM (Tobacco Club) no fans, no real club location, re locate to Samut Sakhon, still no fans, so re-locate again to Phichit, why Phichit? Because Phichit have a good Regional League side with a good fanbase, they simply turn up, tell that fanbase they are in the Premier League, so come watch us. Unfortuanlty, this seems to be in the in thing. Wait for a RL club to do well and then re-locate into that area and take the plaudits.
     
  23. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England

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