Question regarding Red Star and Partizan

Both sides have their own minorities... but to be honest neither side is gyspy...

And Pure Serbian clubs? They're none... we're all equal.

All we can say is that both clubs have had their share of different nationalities and ethnicities in the past. And Kezman is more Slovenian anyways.

Zvezda was formed by the "secret police" while Partizan was always the club of the army and the regular police.

That's about the only fact you'll find when talking about these issues. All others are just facts molded into clouded judgments which the people lay claim to, but cannot support the generality they're making.

 

Very funny. Red Star is considered to be Serbian club, while we consider Partizan more as Yugoslavian club. It's true that Partizan had more "minority" players and club representatives than Red Star, and fans after all. On the other hand, Red Star fans are called (after more popular, but newer nickname Delije) Cigani or Gipsies. We got that nickname from others. When Red Star played in Croatia their matches, lots years ago, while there was still Yugoslavia, Croats called us (Serbs) Gipsies, because they thought it was offensive. The reason they called Red Star fans Gipsies the most is because they also considered Red Star to be "Serbian club". At first we didnt like that, but after we accepted the nickname creating a chant you can still hear by Delije: "Mi smo cigani najjaci smo, najjaci" which means: "We are Gipsies, we are the strongest".
I hope I helped.

 

I think football_addict's explanation hit it right on the nose.

 

Exactly, but they aren't calling us Gipsies anymore, because now we call ourselves that name. Crazy Serbs, huh?

 

Kezman is Jewish? Why does he cross himself then?

 

Samo ti... = Only you
U mome srcu si... = Are in my heart
Jedna jedina, = One and only
Nepobediva - = Invicible
Moja ljubavi... = My love

And than it goes with tiny difference:
Samo ti... = Only you
U mome srcu si... = Are in my heart
Jedna jedina, = One and only
Nepobediva - = Invicible
Zvezda Crvena = Red Star

 

PARTIZAN = PAKISTAN
GROBARI = TALIBAN

"ZVEZDA JE ZIVOT OSTALO SU SITNICE"

 

foottbbaall1972 = idiot

 

ZVEZDA JE SRBIJA !!!!!!!!! NIKAD VISE YUGOSLAVIA

 

Hey guys... chill out. It's only a football board. Talk about football or leave.

 

PISI SRPSKI DA Ti CEO SVET RAZUME

 

Pricaj o fudbalu, ili nemoj da pricas... ovaj forum ja za fudbal, a ne za nesto drugo.

 

ja pricam istinu,ako tebi ne odgovara idi na drugo mesto.
i ti si mi neki srbin,i jos zvezdas nadam se da si samo zvezda,ne DELIJA jer takvi budaletina nama ne treba na SEVER !!!

"i kad dodje tuga,ja zvezdo bicu stobom
kunem se SEVEROM svojim,slavom i svetim bogom"

 

I'm just curious, is this for yellow or for red card?

 

Mate, I`m sorry but what you say here is plain wrong. The notion that Zvezda fans are known as gypsies due to Croats calling Serbs gypsies is absolutley ridicilous. Firstly because then surely all Serbian sides would be known as gypsies and not just Zvezdaši. And secondly because any namecalling on ethnical basis was simply unthinkable in the times the nickname originates from both due to prevailing attitudes among people of Yugoslavia (and we are talking 50s here not the late 80s) and the laws that prescribed a minimum of 3 months in jail for any verbal delict `on national basis` and also guaranteed you expulsion from the Communist Party and possibly a good beating by the `people`s militia`.

The truth of the matter is Crvena Zvezda got their gypsy nickname from other team`s fans but chiefy their biggest rivals Partizan`s fans taunting them `cigani` as a way of making fun of their club red and white striped jerseys that they perceived as being gaudy and distasteful.

In the same manner Partizan`s fans were taunted `grobari` (the undertakers) since their jerseys were seen as ugly and depressing by their opponents.

Then later of course both supporter groups adopted the `cigani` and `grobari` nicknames themselves and took pride in refering to themselves by them.

Thinking this rivalry to have any political connotations is reading too much into it. The simple thing of the matter is that as the attitudes of the general popullation changed the attitudes of the Zvezda and Partizan fans simply mirrored those changes. The incorrect perception of Zvezda as more nationalist than Partizan thus likely simply stems from the fact that when someone talks about Zvezda they will likely rush to mention their by far the most succesful season of 1990/91 when nationalism incidentaly was at its height (except it was at its height accross the Yugoslavia and not just among Zvezda fans) while Partizan`s most memorable season was in 1966 when attitude in the country was much different.


Maybe the photo below can illustrate what I am talking about. It features Dinamo Zagreb and Zvezda fans above a joint transparent with club colors and signs that reads: "Comrade Tito we swear to you". (Right after Tito`s death parole: "Comrade Tito we swear to you not to diverge from your path" was all-present - infact there was even a song of the same name.) Everyone must admit this simply isn`t very nationalist gesture and this is 1980 we are talking about.



PS. I don`t know who told you the "pure Serb" thing. Hell one of the best players of the Zvezda`s 1991 team was Robert Prosinčki - a Croat.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. They called us gipsies back in Kingdom of Yugoslavia, I'm not sure about communist period though.

 

So you are saying supporters of Crvena Zvezda that was founded in 1945 got their nickname by an ethnic slur for Serbs supposedly used by Croats before the World War II. I`m afraid but that is plain ridicilous. It is also beyond comprehension why then would the taunt `cigani` be used by supporters of Partizan, Vojvodina, Rad and so on. Ethnic Serbs insulting other ethnic Serbs with an anti-Serb ethnic slur?? Please don`t make me laugh.

 

I didnt say they called Red Star fans - cigani, but Serbian teams generally. Red Star fans accepted that in late 80's as far as I know, during communism.I know some people told me that even before WWII Croats insulted our teams(BSK - OFK Beograd ??) by telling them "gipsies". I'm pretty sure that insluts didnt stop under communism(but than mainly to Red Star and Partizan), even today you can hear them, after so many years. Partizan fans were already named Grobari, but reason why Red Star fans accepted the nickname and not some other Serbian team isn't familiar to me, and I don't really care. I wrote only what I've heard.

I cant remember anyone is Serbia tried to insult us by telling us "cigani". "Ciganske pi...e" maybe.

 

No, pastir is right, partizan was calling Red Star gypsies long before the 1980s. Now at the beggining of Yugoslavia when the clubs were founded, Partizan was considered the more "communist" club, despite the fact that they both bear names tied very closely to Communist era heroes and symbols, many supporters of Red Star will tell you that despite the clubs name supporting them was a way to show your dissaproval of the communist regime, or at least more so than supporting Partizan. I think this has over time faded away seeing as how Red Star supporters outnumber those of Partizan in contrast to how it was even 30 years ago, meaning there has been some switching of preference, probably inspired by Red Star's Champions League win in 1991. I personally chose to support Partizan when living in Belgrade because I was a 7 year old boy and I thought the color black was pretty cool, also the Partizan stadium was closer to my apartment block than the Marakana, although to be honest FK Obilic was just down the street and playing at top quality, but this was also 1998 and Arkan was behind the wheel of the club so not surprisingly they went on to win the league and the cup, despite this I don't know how many people were behind them at this time. Anyway the point is that at this time when Serbia is its own country, the lines between who supported what club have been erased and redrawn so that both clubs are supported by a Serbian Orthodox majority but both also have a small portion of cigani and other minorities supporting them.

 

I don't know but from what I've heard Partizan has always been the club of the army, police, and the politicians.

Red Star was supported by the Secret police.

And from what I remember both my grandfathers telling me while I was in Serbia is that Partizan is the government club. My former grandpa told me that when he was living as an 18 year old and supporting Partizan in 1945 when it was founded that the army was behind it.

Another reason is this. Why is it that Partizan is always better illustrated in "Politika" then Red Star. Answer me that question.

When I was a kid there would be long articles about Partizan, and only snips about RSB.

 

Well I don't know when you grew up in Belgrade but if it was prior to 1990 I would agree completely that Partizan was the team favored by the state which in turn meant it was also the team favored by the media, the people, and in certain instances luck. But after Communism in Yugoslavia began to lose its strength many people began supporting Red Star not just because it was the better club at that time, but also because it was the more nationalist club as it had acquired supporters from many of the Chetnik families. These families saw Red Star as a purely Serbian club in contrast to Partizan which in their eyes was Yugoslavian and a representative of the people who had been trying to kill them only years before. Thus when Communism finally disintegrated the fans of Red Star could let their true serbian pride out and the club became a symbol for the Serbian campaign during the Balkan Wars, this is evident when looking at where Arkan got many of his paramilitary Tigers (The Delije at the marakana) and when watching the open scene of the movie Rane where a majority of the people are sporting Red Star logos.

In a very short time Red Star went from being the minority in Belgrade to the vast majority because Communism fell and in the confusion of that time Serbian pride and nationalism exploded, the club that evoked the emotions of the people at that time was Red Star and thus they obtained a large and vigorous following. I was still very very young at this time but I remember that all throughout my childhood Red Star gained most of the attention from the media which at that time instead of being controlled by Tito was in the hands of Milosevic who of course aimed the microphone at the team which seemed to share his vision for Serbia.

Looking back I simply chose Partizan because at that age black and white seemed more manly to me than red and the descision stuck with me. It was not a politically based descision nor was it one based on the quality of play and knowing what I know now I too would have favored Red Star at that time but the war is done now and the area is peaceful for the most part so I'm sticking with Partizan.