Nations League A, Camp 2, Canada/Cuba, Nov. 15/19

I think most of the frustration with the line up is not who was not called in so much as who was called in...

Fans are ready to move on from:
Corey Baird
Wil Trapp
Cristian Roldan
Michael Bradley
Tim Ream
Daniel Lovitz
Gyasi Zardes

...It’s like we know we have some good new faces on the crest of the hill yet we still see all the guys who have absolutely no business being on the team. And, no matter how excited we want to be about so and so called in, there’s this gigantic dingleberry in the line up.

In the 2010 cycle, we were stuck with Robbie Findley and Jonathan Bornstein. But you know what? That’s TWO guys. The rest of the line up was solid.

Whereas, in the 2022 cycle... it’s not uncommon to see Ream, Lovitz, Roldan, Trapp/Bradley, and Zardes all in the same line up. HALF of our line up is absolutely atrocious. And, it’s frustrating when that’s not necessary because there are superior options.

 

The two are connected.

You have no right to get upset over lousy players getting called when the ones left out are just as lousy.

 

if learned how to edit your posts for brevity, you could be BS’ best poster....this is hysterical.

 

From the high(low?)lights I've seen, and a couple games, he does the exact same thing. Doesn't have any responsibilities defensively or going forward, and thus never looks bad. Doesn't get blame for goals against, doesn't get blame if the offense struggles. The entire reason nobody is ever capable of moving off him. The fact he's about to be a FA and nobody really wants him says just about all it needs to (yes, i realize he has a high salary, but if he keeps playing after this year, it's likely getting cut 80%).

The fact we're two years plus from Couva and still no real thought of a midfield without him in it is so pathetic it's actually funny.

 

way i look at it, just like an old beasley is really a 60% beasley, not what he used to be, and needs to be assessed as a personnel choice accordingly.........if you make all these personnel choices you're running out a 60% US team which is in fact probably worse than canada just like it looks. it's like playing the varsity bench against the JV starters. you just narrowed or negated your edge.

i'm still trying to decide how someone could be this dense, is he just this stubbornly arrogant he's right, or has he been told he has a 7 year project where it doesn't matter if he's right any time soon.

 

It's not a superiority complex. It's an observation of the painfully obvious.

So many people come here to outrage-post over player selections which they have no control over. It's like raging against Mount Evans...chances are, it's not going to move out of your way. However, if you enjoy the ride, there's a really cool lake above the frost line and you can hang with the mountain goats on the precipice.

I can understand being frustrated after a stupid loss, but at some point either you move on and learn to enjoy your entertainment again or you find other entertainment (without continually letting everyone else know you are really, really, really going to really stop watching the USMNT this time. REALLY.).

If someone isn't enjoying this form of entertainment, my suggestion to them would be to find another to take its place that is more satisfying. I'd say it would probably be more enjoyable for them to root for a front-runner somewhere so they don't have to endure middling status.

Deep down, here's the thing that's bothering them: we are NOT Brazil, Germany, Argentina, or even England. That's just not going to change tomorrow.

 

i think some of the personnel discussions are a year or two stale. "bradley" was a theoretical argument you could make in january. is this old guy still better than enough of the kids to make the team and/or start. few assists and many goals allowed later, we should be on to other questions. it's not an abstract discussion anymore, it should be, concretely, impactful or not, liability or not. we all know the answers here.

that would be my response to the "couva" arguments. yeah, he's dipping back, but, worse, even if you indulged him a game or two of nostalgia, he doesn't seem to see that he dug trash up. theory is over. he has played several games. where are the results.

 

And that's why I hope Morales gets the start.

Now, being honest, I feel Fredo is not a great fit to Egg's system. But the guy earned back his starting spot with Düsseldorf and has not let go. Every time he's lost it, he came back all cylinders firing and got it back. It's admirable, if anything.

So, yeah. I want Fredo to do well with the NT. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Now, for a second think of how hard it is to coach a NT: you must keep up with the form of many players in many leagues, and know which players' form does translate well to the NT.

Some characteristics won't change. A 20 year old fast guy will still be fast even if in bad form (unless he blew an ACL, of course). A 24 year old with no vision will remain without vision even if he starts bagging them with his club.

It's not an easy job.

 

the deal is this team has normally been close enough to optimized and successful enough that x% of the time we are winning, including upsetting some of these name brand teams you now say we should glom onto if we want immediate success. we already got that success enough against those teams in previous years to not need to wander. setting aside patriotism. you could show up for a game and at least hope to win, and pretty much everyone in the world, we've beaten at least once. italy away. mexico away. germany. holland. england. brazil.

about everyone but costa rica away.

but now it's like, can we beat canada? i went through and showed who we lost to and whether home/away in qualifying a few years ago. we have regressed back to like the 80s. this is what it's like to root for a team that is not well selected or coached, and whom i can no longer trust to get results above a tepid level, and can't be sure will qualify. based on talent that is bull.

and i think the anger on here is we don't buy this should be the case. i think based on sarachan's game we should be able to play mexico even if we play our cards right. and then if that is true we should be favored to beat anyone else in the region. and it astounds me to have to watch anything else. maybe we are spoiled but with this roster we still should be fairly spoiled.

 

I wouldn't say we're spoiled. I'd say that we are unaware. Look at the fan conversation around every year after 2002. Everyone expects dramatic linear progression, without really understanding that soccer is a team sport just like American Football, Baseball, or Basketball.

What happened to the Spurs after Duncan and Ginobili aged out? Have they competed for titles? What happened to the Broncos after Elway, Terrell Davis, Zimmerman, Smith, Atwater, etc, left? Did they three-peat under Bubby Brister?

What will happen to the Patriots after Brady and Belichick leave?

Team sports are not only about systems...they are also about players.

USMNT fans traditionally have no appreciation for what they have because they are so focused on what they don't have. Dempsey, Donovan, Beasley, Howard, Onyewu, Jones, young Bradley, Cherundolo, Bocanegra...they're all gone. Many of those guys KO'd the all-time great mighty Spain in a FIFA tournament and then barely lost to Brazil after giving it a real run.

Right now there is not a single player on the team who I would put in that squad against Spain except for Pulisic and McKennie, and only because their youth and inexperience would be covered for by the wily veterans who had already been through the wars and could keep them straight.

We have essentially a team of rookies going against other teams with more experience and we're expecting to win the games. I think that perspective is unfair to the rookies. Youth, inexperience, and lack of leadership is the main issue with the team. That's something that will take time to overcome. However, if you look around you'll see a lot of exciting prospects with huge potential. Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Adams, Cannon, Sargent, Weah, Pomykal...there are a lot of really interesting young players out there trying to make their way. Let's see if they can grow without asking them to be Argentina in a year.

 

More than unaware, the average American soccer fan is uneducated about the game.

When that is the case, there are two options: listen those who know better, and learn; or become entrenched, and hate those who try to teach.

The latter is called stupidity.

 

You know who would be great to have in our modern squad? Guys like Conor Casey or Brian Ching. A guy like Josh Wolff. Eddie Lewis. Frankie Hejduk. Pablo Mastroeni. Eric Wynalda. Marcelo Balboa. Tab Ramos. Tony Sanneh. Thomas Dooley.

Those guys put on the shirt and GOT THINGS DONE, no matter what the obstacles were.

People derided Conor Casey all the time, but that guy was physical, could get on the ball and keep it, could score a goal, and WASN'T AFRAID. He was unapologetic about putting some guy on his butt to create a chance. Same goes for Brian Ching.

 

I have plenty of right...

Who I would have called in:

Out: Steffen, Adams, Weah, Soto, M. Robinson, Altidore
Note: I’ll exclude/forgive any u23 player called into u23 camp.

GK: Horvath, Johnson, Turner
(I said Gonzalez and Guzan but whatever. I do want Horvath there regardless)

RB: Yedlin, Cannon, Chandler*
(can’t complain with Yedlin and Cannon. But if possible, I would have like to have seen Chandler. Not upset by omission though)

CB: Brooks, Miazga, Alvarado, Long, Zimmerman*
(I might have to cut one of these, but it wouldn’t be Miazga or Alvarado)

LB: Dest, Lichaj, Lima*
(I might axe Lima as I did Gasper, but I’m not upset by either inclusion. Regardless, I rate Lichaj above both. More so, I would have called in Antonee, but u23. Oh and I’d still call in Hollingshead before Lovitz)

M6: Morales, Yuiell
(Yuiell did enough against Cuba last time that I don’t mind him getting a second call. No real issues here. The u23 camp is going to be a big opportunity though for a lot of players at this position, because I would have included them otherwise)

M8: McKennie, Lletget
(I wanted to see Aaronson get some minutes. And I wish that we could see Nagbe, but he’s on the outs for the time being)

10: Holmes, Green
(Pulisic may have to play double duty at the 10 and the LW, but for now, with Holmes, Green, and Lletget who can play the 10, Pulisic gets time at LW)

RW Morris, Boyd
(So, I really wanted to see Sabbi but Morris & Boyd will do)

FW Sargent, Ebobisse
(so, I’m violating my rule with the u23, but I’m justifying it by Ferreira making the cut for the u23’s. That is unless I could get Siebatcheu to make an appearance)

LW Pulisic, Arriola
(moving Pulisic back to LW and Arriola backing him up)

POINT: No Lovitz, No Trapp, No Bradley, No Roldan, No Baird, No Ream, No Zardes. Not drastically different, but cut out the guys who have proven to not be good enough for this level. And maintaining the integrity of the u23 team. Although, there are a lot I wish we could have seen. More so, there is no one absurdly called into this team either...

 

If our talent has declined relative to prior USMNT versions, who’s the genius who decided that now is a “ballsy” time to implement a system based upon technical excellence and superiority?

 

Several people I know personally who used to follow the NT are no longer interested. I'm afraid if we fail to make Qatar, the sport will start dying in the USA.

 

this comment is amazingly dumb.

The coach’s job is to put together a squad that plays better than the sum of its parts. If a coach has tried certain players that have completely and obviously failed, it is an absolute requirement to try other players to see if they perform or fit better with the squad. Keeping the same crappy players while not giving comparably talented player a look even in the face of terrible performance and cohesion is ridiculous.

if the coach had cycled through all the players and given them an equal shot, then one can claim that he’s looked under every rock and has settled in the best option. Instead when ARobinson and Trapp were the two worst players in a game, you g and athletic Robinson was sent home so we could rely upon older slower Lovitz and trapp was given the captain’s armband in the next game.

 

There is no time to try every flavor of the week.

And you guys in these forums have a _lousy_ record predicting quality in players.

Egg may be a bad coach, but you guys are beyond clueless. So between Berhalter and the bunch here, I trust Berhalter more.

It's not high praise, btw.

 

I thought it was interesting that Tab didn't get the Olympic team. It would have been an opportunity to get some rookie fans hooked on an Olympic team going for a medal.

Nobody had a more hands on knowledge of the character of the various players and what they were capable of. I suppose the system is more important. I can see MacKenzie on Ellen talking about the importance of the system coach has fabricated and explaining their non-showing in Tokyo in terms of players inability to meet the demands of the system which will come to fruition at some future date because it takes time.

 

In Chandler's debut versus Argentina, he looked like the best player on the field and a 10 year lock starter.

Shame that he reacted so poorly to the travel and playing in hot weather...

 

How many times to I have to point out that you need a reference point? trapp/Bradley/Lovitz and roldan are the baseline and the truly lousy quality assessment is Berhalter.

do you really think that it’s only this season that morales deserved to be even called into a 40 man roster and that Sargent didn’t deserve to make the gold cup?

I’m guessing you’ll fall back on the belief that you’re the only one who actually watches players.

 

I'm not happy about Miazga, Holmes, and Green not given a chance this time around. Morales goes up and down in form, now he's in good form and is getting called, it may be the first time in years both cycles have coincided.

Of all the people not called, Miazga is the only one I feel it's a "firable offense." Starting Lovitz on the left instead of Dest would be another.

As for the rest, no. I don't think Antonee or Fabian Johnson or Horvath or Boyd or what not need to be around.

PS: And Lichaj. Campaigned for him back in the day, and until recently he was our #3 best player in the Championship, but after several managers have ignored the guy, and he had a couple of shots where he didn't look good, I guess I'm over him. He's 30, Klinsi, Arena, Sarachan and Egg must have their reasons. I'm not even following Hull any more.

 

Since this convo isn't making much sense it probably has to do with one of two posters I ignore.

The argument is likely "egg knows best, trust the process, the players just aren't good enough". My advice to you is give it up, you ain't convincing them. We could lose to Cuba and it'd just be the state of our program, and we need to recalibrate expectations.

 

Well, the gap is not necessarily in the talent, it's just that there are a couple of generations that should have bridged the gap from Dempsey to Pulisic, and they didn't pan out.

So, there's a sort of leadership-less gap in the talent pool. If there ever was a time to shift gears into a new system, I think this would be it. It takes some cajones to do that kind of thing though.

Whether or not Earnie's system is the right one...that's up for debate.

 

coaches always have favorites but I’m most concerned when they’re systemic and truly damaging. Klinsmann has a bias against the championship but we didn’t have many players there. It seem obvious to me that Berhalter is following arena’s footstep and has a clear preference for MLS players. It even worse that in the early part of his tenure when we’re rebuilding, he didn’t even look at many European players such as the ones you’ve listed or gave them a very short leash compared to domestic players.

I’ll again say that I don’t think that any of them are world beaters but they’re good enough to be given a chance to compete against the weaker MLS players, especially in the wake of terrible performances by some of Gregg’s core crew and the overall team. would I feel strongly about ARobinson if he was a right back competing against Cannon or if boyd sits behind Morris now? nope because cannon and Morris are young MLS players who have stood out for both club and nation. Can’t say that about the others I’ve listed many times.

 

But we have very limited time to built team chemistry.

Our stupid federation wasted a full year hiring Earnie and further months finding the "ideal candidate" when everybody knew they had only considered a couple of names from the start.

I don't like what they did. I suspect they took their time hiring Berhalter exactly for this purpose: so we'd be so pressed in time, we'd have to take what we were offered.

BUT what's done is done. No one can give us back the time wasted. Now what matters is forming a team, finding cohesion, and hoping the "system" does at least well enough not to miss another World Cup.

I'm mad at the system but I don't want to miss another World Cup. So people attacking EVERYTHING they do rub me the wrong way. There's nothing productive in it. That most of them were also the Klinsmann fans is enough to make me ignore such people, since it seems they want everything to fail only to get their guy back.