The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    In actuality, the players from last year's USL squad haven't played much: https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/article/fc-cincinnatis-usl-player-promotion-strategy-backfires/
    Admittedly, that would indicate a lack of depth, though.
     
  2. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    #23677 CoachP365, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    Depth schmepth, they were screwed the moment Hildebrandt left. You gotta wonder if the new regime has thought about throwing whatever garberbux necessary to get his rights from atlanta and get him to unretire. He's only 30, keepers tend to have a longer trajectory than field players....
     
  3. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    That’s why...checks notes...they had their best season in USL after Mitch left and why Mitch...flips page...barely made the XI with ATL II.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  4. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Who was the keeper when they had their best USOC run and were a Premier League washout away from the finals?

    It's possible to have an overpowered roster for USL and still need a keeper capable of individual brilliance.

    None of which is really related to pro/rel in the usa though,...
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the article seems to support the idea that the difference between D1 and D2 is too great to introduce automatic pro/tel.

    Vancouver are the only team to have elevated more USL players to their MLS roster and they also finished dead last, and that was in the pre-TAM days.
     
  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I don't think anyone (except FC Cincinnati, I guess) is arguing that the divisions aren't stratified. One of the arguments for pro/rel is the hope that it may make the gap smaller.
     
    M repped this.
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would require MLS to give promoted teams money rather than take it away.
     
  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #23683 Elninho, Sep 29, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    Even then, Vancouver only technically elevated more players from their D2 roster -- Cincinnati brought up more players who were under contract with their USL team during the previous season. Two of the Whitecaps players who moved up to MLS with the club were never on a professional contract with the Whitecaps while they were actually playing in D2. Long Tan spent the 2010 season with FC Tampa Bay, went on trial with the D2 Whitecaps after the season ended, and signed a contract before the Whitecaps were formally in MLS. Russell Teibert made one appearance for the D2 Whitecaps as an unpaid academy player and signed his first pro contract with the MLS Whitecaps.
     
    Paul Berry repped this.
  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Given the way they've benefited from the SUM deal with the USSF, that seems fair.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In what way have they benefited?
     
  11. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Healthy? Perhaps but boring as hell though! By the way you told me (not very long ago) that pro/rel resulted in the same teams at the top and the same teams getting relegated all the time? You told me that Leicester where gauranteed bottom finishers? What happened to that particular forecast? Shouldnt Sheffield United be bottom of the table and Man U at the top?? I told you you were wrong didn't I? :)
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Things are changing in the Premier League. It's being led by relative paupers:eek:

    Owner wealth:

    Man City $22B
    Chelsea $12.9B
    Arsenal $9.7B
    Aston Villa $9.2B
    Spurs $6.2B
    Leicester $5.9B
    Wolves $5.9B
    Man Utd $4.9B
    Southampton $4B
    Crystal Palace $3.9B
    Liverpool $2.7B
    Everton $2B
    Brighton $1.7B

    The Blades will struggle but they should stay up due to the incompetence of other owners.

    My guess is Norwich, Newcastle and Watford will go down.
     
  13. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Where’d I say Leicester we’re bottom finishers? Their late owner pumped them full of enough money (merit) to stay relatively mid-table. The likelihood of them winning the league again is slim unless the new owners pump more money into the club. Leicester getting relegated in the near future is more likely than Liverpool or Manchester City, no doubt
     
  14. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Also, boring is subjective. We get the Championship on ESPN+ and...woof. There have been more than a few snoozers in the EPL this year too. More to come once Liverpool and Manchester City pull away from the pack.

    BTW, there are an awful lot of repeats in the champions and relegated columns https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_seasons
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Norwich City and Sheffield United are both spending less than Toronto and the Galaxy this season.

    Playing for parachute payments? Bookmark this post.
     
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  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong. It would require MLS getting a substantially larger TV/Media Rights deal. With the league seemingly going to 30 teams, and possibly more the media deal will need to grow exponentially in order to make it worthwhile for promoted clubs (hypothetically speaking). Hell it's going to need to grow by a significant amount in order for the league to continue to grow at its' current rate.

    With the current deal each gets about $5M-$6M per season. Of course that slice of TV pie is going to get smaller next season with Miami and Nashville entering the league (Nashville's and Columbus' expansion fees cover this decrease in TV money for the existing teams).

    In the EPL that $1B+ annual TV money gets split amongst at most 29 teams (20 teams in the league, plus up to 3 teams from each of the previous season's relegated teams*). The split is not even of course. The higher up the table the more money a team receives.

    *provided they don't win promotion, they receive parachute payments in decreasing amounts for up to 3 season's after being relegated. It's only two season's if a team spends only one season in the PL. Now granted this is no small amount of money. It should also be noted that this concept has only been around since the 2006-2007 season.

    "In the first year, the payment is 55 per cent of the amount that each Premier League club receives as part of its equal share of broadcast revenue. Based on the most recent figures, that percentage is roughly £40m. The percentage is reduced to 45% in the second year (roughly £35m) and 20% in the third year (roughly £15m)."

    https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/wha...-how-much-teams-get/ndpbojgz6szj1ojgn3p7jlbuo

    Seriously?? Do you REALLY want to open this trope again? We don't need to hear this greatest hit again.......it's already been played to death.

    We also get the enjoyment of watching League One now too! Lots of route one, hoof and hope football played......enthralling stuff.

    All sarcasm aside, there's a clear divide in the championship. The teams that actually go out and play attacking football tend to be in the promotion picture. Not to mention the teams that spend the most like Derby (Wolves, Leicester, Villa before they won promotion,) tend to be at or near the top of the table.

    By and large, that league is a war of attrition. It must be such a grind for those teams. 46 league games, and potentially an additional 3 to win promotion if you don't place first or second, and more FA Cup and Gummy Bear Cup games to boot. An argument can be made that the EFL Championship, League One & League Two could be reduced to 20 teams apiece with a League Three being created that has 16-18 teams. This would make things even more competitive, while also possibly increasing the quality of play in each league (reduction of games, more recovery time, more time off for promoted teams to prepare for their new league, etc.).
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I want to hear how a league with 3 teams and a bunch of hastily written letters was cruelly deprived of it's D2 status by the MLS/SUM conspiracy, again.

    Those LOIs again were from Boca Raton FC, Boston City FC, Detroit City FC, FC Arizona, Hartford City FC, New Orleans Jesters and Virginia Beach City FC.

    So far I think only DCFC has made the next step towards professionalism.
     
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  18. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Living within their means.
     
  19. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    So Aston Villa for the Champions League and Liverpool for mid-table mediocrity then.

    Oh wait, it's decided by performances on the field of play.
     
  20. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    By being tied financially to the body that regulates them, a clear conflict of interest.
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Leicester are looking exceptionally good despite selling McGuire. But, I was assured on here that they were a one season wonder, so I am not sure whether to believe my eyes.
     
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  22. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You told me pro/rel was pointless because the same teams that go up inevitably go back down! It's only taken a couple of seasons to prove that's bollox, you also told me that the same clubs will always be at the top, I told you that over time things will change (remember talking about Huddersfield & Wolves), top 3 at the time Chelsea, Man U & Arsenal! I think we can finally put that nonsense to bed.
     
  23. What people advocating closed shops with artificial level playing field donot get is that with spreading the available quality players thin over all teams you get a level, low overall quality league. The second result of that system is that top talents donot raise their level further up as they're stuck in a mediocre team with no other players of top quality to push them beyond their quality comfort zone.
    In a Pro/Rel league, especially the from top to bottom money loaden EPL, you always are in a team that has players to lift your qualities up if you have the potential quality in you.
    There's a reason why a low money low level playing field Eredivisie produces from a crop of 1/10th of the USA superstars as if it's a coveyor belt and the USA none.
     
  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Their yearly costs are quite larger remaining in the Prem ... you know, the cost of doing business.

    Or Derby or Villa bad ...

    According to M's logic they are ... BUT of course it only applies to MLS teams because reasons.

    So Bury is better for the sport, as a whole ...

    Only to the point of being better than the rest of their division (or 2nd or even 6th potentially in the Championship). The team they'd have to field upon gaining promotion would have to be even better than THAT. Cincy's MLS team IS better than their USL team ... they just swung and miss on how much better they needed to be.

    Derby bought their first ever 1m pound player and added another 5m worth of signings to make the promotion run the year they were promoted back into the Prem. They then spent another 9.75m pounds on just Davis, Miller, Earnshaw the summer before their Prem return (with several other signings) ... Then spent another 3.5m pounds on Savage and Villa in January just to end up as the worst ever Premier League team.

    How is that money relative to the Championship clubs they play the next year? Pretty rewarding I'd bet ...

    In a system that requires them to play above them

    Their title win was ... yes. That's what was actually stated.

    LOL wut? There are absolute shit teams in pro/rel everywhere ...
     
  25. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Don't make me pull out the list of EPL finishers again. The same 4-5 teams are always in contention. The same 10ish teams are nearly always going to be fighting to stay up. History has proven that. Just because a team is top three a month or so into the season is meaningless. We'll see if Wolves finish in the top 4 at the end of the year.

    It's about payroll. Top 6 in payroll = a good chance you'll finish in the top six in the EPL. https://www.spotrac.com/epl/payroll/2018/

    Of course you'll have billionaires who don't want to spend (Newcastle) but you get those in every league. But you know that.
     
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