The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. I wonder what would be the state of soccer if we would still be running New York in that part of the USA. It's about the same size in population with the Netherlands.
    I think we might have been able to produce a global soccer power from players from that tiny piece of America. Of course with P/R.
     
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  2. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    The dude is talking about the USSF not pro/rel, not league organization. Yes the USSF should focus more on youth development, but that has zero to do with the closed nature of American leagues and more to do with USSF not putting money back into academies or training. Our closed leagues are the ones doing that right now. Adding pro/rel (which isn’t happening) would immediately cut the legs out of the development that the closed leagues are currently investing in.

    If it were up to me, USSF should take some of their surplus and set up endowments for college scholarships for both men and women’s soccer. Currently they’re doing nothing but that’s not the fault of SUM/MLS/Closed leagues or the lack of pro/rel
     
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  3. Nope. The stratification in power already was taking place. You can talk about amateurs, but if you can play every home match in front of 60,000 people at Feyenoord, the lure is quite different.
     
  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Odd, I didn’t offer my assistance.
     
  5. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny, the top of the closed shop (MLS) is doing a hell of a lot for youth development.

    In San Antonio (USL Championship) we've sent academy kids to US Youth NT camps and just had our most promising prospect sign in Belgium: https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports...ryant-signs-with-club-in-Belgium-14378734.php

    What you're trying to imply simply isn't true about the closed structure. It's about the inability or unwillingness of the fed to focus on youth development fully.

    OH:
    I must have missed your answer about whether or not there's still an application/plan submission and teams having to declare if they want to be eligible for promotion from the semi-pro Tweede into the fully pro top two tiers ...
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's what I mean though. The stratification in the Netherlands developed on a level playing field.

    By the time the league turned professional the hierarchy had already been established.

    There were no American Soccer League teams attracting 60,000. There was no hierarchy.

    It was not practical to transition existing grass roots teams into a professional league.
     
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  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Three teams that have never been relegated and four more than haven't been relegated in my lifetime. They may have had to earn the money, but very little of that has anything to do with pro/rel.
     
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  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO college scholarships are only a small part of the answer. College Soccer would need to be reformed first with a longer season, and the ability for coaches to have more than a couple of hours per week with their players for ~4 months a year. The way college soccer is structured currently does not lend itself to consistent player development. The condensed schedule can and has lead to more injuries (which reduces an already finite amount of training time w/ coaches). If they spread the season out to a Fall and Spring split season, players would have a greater recovery time and also more training time. The rules would also have to be switched to how the game is played in the rest of the world (3 substitution limit, running clock, etc.).

    Also, the US Pay to Play clubs, and their ridiculous travel tourney schedules would be strengthened. The pay to clubs play multiple games a day on weekends, and train 1-2 days a week in some instances. Training is where technical skills are developed. Sure the pay to play club model can get kids into a college soccer program. Then again even with an increase in the scholarship money on hand, would still only make a small dent in the ever rising cost of Higher Education in the US. Soccer is still a non-revenue sport for Colleges and Universities. Until that changes, adding more to the pile isn't going to change the development model.

    You're forgetting that Football is NOT the most popular sport in the US. In NYC, Basketball, American Football and Baseball are king. NYC produces some the best basketball players in the world year in and year out.

    It should also be noted that the greater NY Metropolitan area has produced some of the best soccer players that the US has ever had: John Harkes, Tony Meola, Tab Ramos, Giuseppi Rossi, Tyler Adams, Tim Weah, Jozy Altidore, Michael Bradley to name a few.

    The amateur soccer leagues in NYC have Pro/Rel. IF the Metro Stars (Now Red Bulls) had been able to find a home stadium in NYC proper back when MLS was first started, their popularity might be a bit different these days.

    I realize that Charlie Stilitano can be a divisive figure, but when he was the GM of the former Metro Stars he pushed to have a development academy all the way back at the start of MLS. At that time there just wasn't enough money to fund one, and also everyone involved in MLS was way more concerned with making sure that the league would stay afloat to ultimately one day grow and become a stable fixture in the US Pro Sports Landscape.
     
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  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Well it does in the sense that they weren't coddled in a closed league where failure is rewarded with "better draft choices". For example, the teams from England's second largest city have spent many years in lower leagues - especially Birmingham City - and haven't matched the success of the Liverpool and Manchester teams. Why not? Demographics are actually somewhat in favour of the Birmingham teams. Had England got closed leagues, for sure a Birmingham team or two would have been permanent members.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Er...Project 40/Generation Adidas has been operating since 1997.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #23387 Paul Berry, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    Tyler Adams is hardly from the NYC metro area. Tim Howard lived a lot closer. Mike Petke is from Brooklyn.

    Check that, some maps put Dutchess County in the metro area, though I doubt anyone in the city would regard it as downstate. Adams is from Poughkeepsie which is 90 minutes from NYC.
     
  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    A surplus created in part by a deal with SUM that's riddled in conflicts of interest. So handing it to a college sports system that's similarly riddled makes sense in a way.
     
  14. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Besides continually repeating “cartel” when it’s been explained to you numerous times that you’re wrong, you’ve also shown that you know next to nothing about college sports so forgive me if I give your opinion on the matter about as much weight as a fart in the wind.

    Let me write your witty retort “shamateurism”. There I saved you the time
     
  15. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I will take your post as a (predictable) compliment from an anti pro/rel zealot.
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did he not grow up and get his start playing soccer in New Jersey?
     
  17. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Just to clarify, the New Netherlands settlements went from Schenectady all the way down to northern Delaware including pretty much all of what is now New Jersey, eastern Pennsylvania including Philadelphia, western Connecticut, and a good portion of western Long Island. It wasn't just New Amsterdam (New York City).
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But best player we've had? (Plus, it was mainly a joke for bringing him up)
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even in Ulster County we have Dutch names like Twaafskill, a reference to the striped bass in the Rondout river.
     
  20. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Claudio Reyna, Mike Windischmann, Werner Roth, Tom Florie (captain of the first US World Cup team), Archie Stark (Stark, Windischmann and Roth all were born in Europe but came to the United States as children).
     
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  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 1950 World Cup team, where the entire squad was drawn from the amateur leagues in New York and St. Louis.
     
  22. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was also Philadelphia and Fall River.
     
  23. It has everything to do with the closed shop. What referred to wasnot about P/R or league organisation (sometimes I do post something unattached to P/R, but your first and primary reaction is P/R this, P/R that with posts from me I guess), but about the prime goal of the whole set up, making money. So youth development comes on the back burner.
    But now you used the P/R word, in the Dutch setting it isnot the task of the KNVB to develop or fund the development of talents. That's the task of the clubs themselves as it is a necesity to do so or run out of players to field. If you donot, you run the risk to relegate because of lack of adequately developed players or missing opportunities to fight for money worth EL/CL spots..
     
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  24. I'm confused by this post. Could you elaborate on what you mean?
     
  25. Are you stating that these clubs made/make their money despite P/R?
     

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