Yes and therefore I'm also reserved about seeing the likes of Puig and De Jong in the "top 10 by popular perception" list, in particular if Barcelona really intents to drop him one line deeper as a single pivot (lost the ball the least of all his team-mates, while topping in combined tackles and interceptions, highest pass accuracy and after the defenders the most passes). That takes away the spectacular nature of his play… Griezmann as left winger in the David Villa role is also something... Pogba as a teenager lost the ball way more often than this Camavinga for sure, with more bad touches, and he still has tactical and technical flaws it can be argued… whose strengths are nullified after he left Juventus with their open midfield. Share the reservations here, but the low amount of poor controls is a step in the good direction, unlike other teenage Africans indeed (when they're physically still growing this coordination/touch is all still amendable to change though).
Would you put any (defensive) midfielder in top 10 for 2010s or 2000s? Or sort of box to box midfielders? Like makelele, vieira, pirlo, yaya toure, you name it.. I feel like De Jong can match if not surpass both Xavi and Iniesta. That definitely can be enough to be top 10 imo. He is already the best player in the first line of distribution. I dont see anyone balancing the safe and risky plays as well as him. He can get better in final third, and must so to be in this kind of conversation, but i can see it happen. He has no obvious weakness. He has a superb mentality and is an audatious person. And he is obsessed with self improving. Perfect mix. 🧐 @DeJongFrenkie21 watching the highlights of the match!Haven't you seen them yet? 📹👇 https://t.co/Zoii1WSebd pic.twitter.com/134xlI1AHb— FC Barcelona (@FCBarcelona) August 11, 2019
Forget top 10 of the decade, if De Jong can surpass Xavi, we're talking about top 10 all-time central midfield playmaker level here.
Well would you at this point bet 100% that he wouldnt surpass him? 22 and i dont see any serious limitation in his style or physical attributes or mentality. And imo Xavi is clear cut top5 of all time midfielder, if not the goat. Both Spain and Barca has never been the same after his decline and departure.
Would you say a bit more about each player? I am fimiliar with the work of Torres only. What is the single best thing about each of them respectively?
I agree Xavi is a top 5 talent, but since we were using top 10, I stuck with the number However, it is precisely because Xavi is a top 5 talent, that if I had to make a bet, I would bet against De Jong. It's ridiculous to say 100% anything, as you suggested. No one can make that kind of claim. I simply think it is far more likely that De Jong falls short of Xavi than equalling, let alone surpassing him.
People might know him from the Youtube videos: List of talents we dare to call "generational":🇫🇷Kylian Mbappé🇳🇱Frenkie de Jong🏴Jadon Sancho🇳🇱Matthijs de Ligt🇩🇪Kai Havertz🇵🇹João Félix🏴Callum Hudson-Odoi🏴Trent Alexander-Arnold🇮🇹Gianluigi Donnarumma🇳🇱Mohammed Ihattaren🇳🇱Naci Unuvar— Football Talent Scout - Jacek Kulig (@FTalentScout) August 25, 2019 https://footballtalentscout.net/about/ The last two in the list will possibly go for the $$$ and opt for Morocco and Turkey.
What i would say to that is that i dont think statistically it is ridiculous to expect to someone eventually equal Xavis quality, just that to pin point which exactly player will do that is very hard. People siad we will never see players like r9 ronaldinho zidane again, then cristiano and messi came along who are arguably better than all 3. Now people say it is unlikely that will we see 2 players like that ever again.. there will be no other xavi. Statistically that's wrong. Given enough time there will be as good players. It is hard to think about it right now, but in 2030 when looking back at 2020s, we will probably talk about 10 phenomenal individuals that would be on pair with top 10 of any decade. Mbappe, Felix might grow into being better than 99.99% of all players in history and we will talking about them as once in a lifetime talents.. Anyhow. I think xavi will be matched and perhapse surpassed and i have a rough idea hiw one could do it (being physically better than Xavi) but to say which player will do that, idk. I would guess de jong at this point, but my knowledge is limited so i could be dead wrong.
Mount, Harry Wilson are interesting players. When I created the thread, ive expected more people to criticize me for not including rashford or martial or vinicius given how many fans they seem to have all over social medias. Gabriel Jesus is also one nobody mentioned. @PuckVanHeel i have no idea who these last 2 players are. Do you know them? If you do, what do you think about them?
Well yes, of course, Xavi can be surpassed over time. Even Pele can, and have been, in some people's minds, so obviously surpassing Xavi is far from impossible. My point is a simple one, because Xavi was so damn good, the smart money must always be to bet against whomever is gunning to match his legacy simply because, as you said, statistically, most people will fall short. Would I be surprised if De Jong achieve this? No, because I've seen enough of De Jong to understand why it is not impossible, but would I be surprised if 2-3 players do so in the next 10-15 years? Yes, because statistically it is unlikely we have 2-3 central midfielders that good so short after we just had Xavi. Not impossible, of course. Some era is stacked with certain type, but it would be an outlier indeed.
Ansumane. Fati. What. A. Talent. Phenomenal debut. Already looked as good if not better than Dembele.
1167098693109112832 is not a valid tweet id The players who StatsBomb similarity scores rate as having the most similar output to Xavi 2010/11. pic.twitter.com/aCqjRMHhWg— Grace Robertson 🏳️⚧️ (@GraceOnFootball) August 23, 2019
Nice analysis. I havent noticed that Rakitićs mistake so far. Horrible decision making but it is partly (mostly) Valverdes fault. It were probably his instructions to play like that anyway. Thats when people try to modify tiki taka for what it is not, a defensive minded tactic. (Contrary to popular belief, tiki taka is very reactive as well as proactive strategy. I am not sure the word reactive is the right one, maybe adjustive) If we ran simultaniously the home game vs Liverpool, we would have seen much more forward passes. Or if we looked at his games in 2015 when he just moved to Barca. My point is that thats not Rakitić in his purest form, he was heavily influenced by wrong intructions and mindset. Thats why i often said Rakitić is not suited for Barcelonas style. He would be seemingly much better player if he played for Liverpool or Juve or Atleti, essentially anyone else. Rakitić doesnt enjoy having possesion and being pressed so much, tho he is a world class player. De jong is polar opposite. He is super comfortable in possesion, capable of changing directions at will with or without the ball, ready to play as many short and quick one twos as needed. Perfect for Barca. He has his weaknesses, but they are all fixable (except for one i guess) hence the very high praises and expectations from me.
Eriksen was the player Barcelona should've signed to replace the ageing Iniesta. Not sure they need him anymore.
I dont like the word replace but better fit definitely. Thats what i said 2 years ago. Verratti was a great choice at that time as well but his mentality is questionable. Thiago would be nice, Isco.. Barca made some stupid signings over the years. They have arthur, de jong now, but neither of them is particularly good in final third so they have a room to improve there. Puig is potentially the one but he is still few years from the world class football
Ive only seen the second half but that was some weakass second half performance by de Ligt, quite awful.
I said it before: he is error prone. Him and Koulibaly did a contest who could make the most errors. He has talent for sure (he is the teenager with the most NT caps; has played an EL final and CL semi as teenager) but this must change. However, similar to what you say about Rakitic above, he was not entirely healthy in the second half, picked up an injury; Bonucci is not the best partner for him (with one of them out of position); this Italian zonal system where he isn't allowed to take initiative is not what he is used to. So far he has been trained to partner with Chiellini... Not to be paired with Bonucci. edit: and Sarri is ill if course.
Ramos built the career around being error prone. And i dont think this is necessary an issue of being error prone. Error for me is either a single poor decision or failing to technically execute a pass or something. I dont think that is what this is: This is more like ignorance or complete inability to recognize where the danger is coming from. At no point does he realize the dangerous passing line and attempts to do something about it. Injury might explain it but i dont think player would remain on the pitch if he couldnt make a sprint. I am not familiar with any pregame or first half injuries but if you are refering to the late in the game thing, it was probably time wasting at it came after this 2nd goal by Lozano. Being partnered with Chiellini or Bonucci shouldnt take away from his footballing intuition and common sense. It's this modern, new age thing where defenders are more valued for their offensive and on the ball skills than actually defending. Stones is another one. Maguire as well but he is not that bad defensively that i am aware of. I saw zero defending instinct in De Ligt there. No urgency in his actions. He is still very young but if he doesnt immidiately start building the habits of a proper defensive player, this will become a common occurence regardless of who his partner is or how good he is pressing wise in the middle of the pitch.
Maybe he forgot he is a left central defender rather than right one, so he assumed Blind was there to cover him, idk how to explain it.
He can do it (series): 1151752464527515653 is not a valid tweet id Bonucci wasn't ideally positioned either and it doesn't help they cannot talk to each other. Bonucci can't speak English or German, the other can't speak Italian yet. The coach is ill. I am somewhat sceptical, but too early to write off. His debut as an Ajax and national team player was a horror show as well. His debut vs Bulgaria was awful. Marcotti said it correct here.
1. Mbappe 2. Joao Felix 3. Vinicius 4. De Jong 5. Alexander-Arnold 6. Donnarumma 7. De Ligt 8. Sancho 9. Lo Celso 10. Arthur
Few things i want to point out. This is not necessary who is the best among 16-22 year olds thread. Van Dijk, Neymar, Hazard, Kane, Salah, etc.. even Ronaldo and Messi are all valid candidates for that top 10 list. So there are few discussions that we can have here. Someone who is 16 today, like Fati, will be 26 in 2030 and might not reach his peak in 2020s so that is also simething to have in mind. Secondly, @Milan05 i see youve put a lot of various positions in your top 10. I dont know how clever that is. Although Arnold might become one of the best ever rb, will that be enough to break in top 10 of the decade. Would you put Dani Alves in top 10 for 2010s or Cafu for 90s/00s? Thinking of players that i would consider for my top 10 list for 2010s, i generally dont think of defensive players. This might be due to fact that defending is more of a teamwork rather than an individual effort. 1. Messi 2. Ronaldo Neymar Xavi Suarez Modrić De Bruyne Robben Van Dijk Ribery Hazard Aguero Iniesta David Silva Salah ..those are sort of players that run across my mind. I am sure i am forgetting someone so dont go crazy. But the point is that overwhelmingly, i think of attackers so i assume the next decade would be no different.
Is there space for alves when there are attack minded players as Lio Cris Robben Xavi Neymar jr Ibrahimovic Vidal Suarez Modric Iniesta Hazard radamel Falcao(10-13)