You know the answer. My answer was obviously sarcastic but not snarky--just once again pointing out that the sports landscape here is very different and any discussion of what pro soccer should ideally look like shouldn't ignore the context.
You don't think having an overwhelmingly strong closed major league is a factor in their being relatively little of substance in professional minor leagues beyond farm systems? I'm talking all sports here, not just soccer.
He might mean the Everton that finished 4th when Spurs finished 7th roughly 12 years ago. The spurs that have slowly clawed their way from midtable team to top 4 team, in spite of being managed by Redknapp and Sherwood for part of that time.
That's one of the acceptable outcomes that happens all over the world - the ownership sells, the team remains in place and tries to get back to the top division. Or, the team is so poorly managed they go bankrupt, someone buys the name, they start at the lowest level and start working their way back up. Who knows, with skin in the game maybe the current Rapids ownership spends some money, or whatever it takes to fix what ails them. I'm in agreement here, I don't see pro/rel being needed in other sports in the US. We're the only country that plays baseball and football, and the NBA and NHL are the undisputed top class destination leagues for the worlds best already.
This is an interesting part of the discussion actually. Because then you've got groups like Cubs and Cowboys fans that come out in droves no matter what. Pirates have actually been good the last 6 or so years ... While it's shit, the Marlins fans did get a new stadium, as have the Lions. In their quarter of a century of existence the Marlins have two WS titles and the Lions have gone to the playoffs much more recently than going 0 for the season. Depends on the institution. For instance at Alabama it's between $10,780 and $29,230 depending on if the player is from Alabama or a different state. That's just for tuition. Room/Board, Books, Meals are also paid potentially. So that's another 10K for R/B costs, 1,200 books/supplies cost, 4,490 "other expenses" (from collegedata.com) So you are looking at a Bama football player getting anywhere from 26.5K to 44.6K OVER the table. No we aren't.
The Pirates have been better, for sure. But there was only one way they could go. And that was nearly 100% McCutcheon. Back to form, they're dead last in their division and the 2nd worst (only ahead of the Marlins!) in the NL. Speaking of: I completely understand this, and my point is not a "what have you done for me lately?", it's "given the current situation, what can you ever possibly achieve again?". The future looks pretty bleak.
I've been a Bengals and Reds fan my whole life and so I've lived through some real garbage seasons. You know what thought never crossed my mind? Gee, I wish instead of playing in the majors next year, I hope that my Redlegs will get kicked down to AAA so we can play the Clippers and Bats rather than the Cubs and Cardinals. Shit owners exist in all leagues regardless of standings gimmicks. They're not being punished by relegation. The fans are. The big difference is that we're talking about the US here. Teams that go under tend to stay dead. Bankruptcy will protect Kroenke from any financial harm. Pro/rel advocates tend to think that these owners who have a net worth of some small countries will be at all affected. If it becomes too much of a loss, or if the valuation (which is more important than anything else) goes down, the owner will close up shop and walk away. The team staff and fans will be the ones affected. Pro/rel isn't needed in soccer either. The game is thriving without it. The only reason people think that pro/rel is as much a part of soccer as two 45 minute halves is because the rest of the world (stupidly IMO) decided that's how they wanted to organize their leagues. It's a league organizational structure, that's all. Nothing more. And I am saying with a huge degree of confidence based on my experience working in sports business that: 1 There are so many obstacles in the way that implementing p/r is nearly impossible in at Euro style pyramid sense and 2. Relegating teams out of the top division would harm the growth of the game here 3. It's completely unnecessary for the growth of the game and the US can become a world soccer powerhouse without it. 4. Adding p/r won't make people suddenly want to watch soccer. 5. Pro/rel does none of the things that most of the biggest advocates think it does (international dominance, development, etc.) 6. Our system of regionalized national leagues is far more successful and superior to the closed arbitrary pyramid that some Euro countries have.
Both of these illustrate the American Sporting cycle though, and what is so great (and possible) because of it. Who saw the Royals winning the WS 3yrs removed from back to back seasons losing 90+ games ? Look at the Astros in 2011, 2012, 2013 .... and then the last 4yrs. The Patriots were a laughing stock just before becoming arguably the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen. The New Orleans AINTS ? Our sports have this happen all the time. and the "what can you possibly ever achieve again" is literally THE TOP. There's nothing inherent with our set up that stops it from happening.
Yes, and we have Chelsea and Man City to prove that sad sacks can polish up nice in pro/rel leagues, too. Hey, did you hear about Leicester City? Great story, really. Yes, there is. I'm not talking about the fact that the Marlins are bad and have been bad more than they've been good, I'm talking about the fact the ownership leveraged their debts against the team. They did this because there is literally no penalty for them them to gut the team's financial future. They are the functional equivalent of a private equity firm. @CrazyJ628 is clutching his pearls at the thought of Reds fans competing against the Bats and Bulls, as if the Marlins fans have a damn thing to look forward to, maybe ever. The owners will be fine, though.
I'm actually not entirely sure. Tentatively, I at least sometimes think soccer might be--at the very least--somewhat more suitable for pro/rel than most other team sports. I've already pretty much come to believe that single-table vs. playoffs is more suitable to the sport. BUT...I'd rather have a stable, functioning league with an imperfect setup over taking an enormous chance on a possibly more ideal setup that ignores fiscal risks and over a century of sports tradition in this country. In many things, not just soccer, I'm a big "Make what we already have work as well as it can" guy over burning it all down in hopes that the ideal situation will then take it's place.
The real Leicester City story is the very existence of 5000:1 odds in the first place. That kind of longshot doesn't even exist in American professional sports. Here, even teams widely expected to finish last in the league hardly ever have longer odds than 500:1. It speaks to the level of disparity between haves and have-nots in England.
Money buys merit. Leicester is also a story of a plucky little club getting...checks notes....a huge amount of investment from an uber-wealthy owner. It wasn't ManCity levels of investment but let's not act like LCFC was just some underdog club that pulled itself up by its bootstraps. The Marlins can get better. Jeter has already made some impact. That's why our system is far superior because it allows for improvement in the next season and long-term planning. Owners don't have to blow the bank one year in hopes of just staying up and they can make smart investments over time. Do Marlins fans have much to look forward to now? Nope. Are they going to be bad forever? Highly unlikely. You're making my point for me though. Owners can get out easily without much trouble. Pro/rel will only punish fans. Our system is better for the fans.
I doubt fans of promoted teams feel this. Certainly not for teams permanently consigned to some level of minor league. And probably not for fans whose team coasts knowing the consequence of failure is "better draft choices".
I see the Sounders are giving ownership opportunities to their fans. Incredibly wealthy fans, like Russell Wilson and Macklemore, but still fans.