Das Martina-Upgrade: Sickle Cut Into Your Defense - Road to WWC 2019 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by Lea_Schueller, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I don't think players are selected because their her favorites... I think certain players are currently in this team due to coaches constant inability to better analyze players attributes...:cautious:

    This being something I ALWAYS talk about here, as Germany's wnt program continues to groom strong talent, yet continue to waste them within a senior system, far too disorganized to ever form the basic skeleton of a true program wide wining stylistic identity.

    Gwinn -- Hegering - Doorsoun - Schweers
    -------------------- Goeßling --------------------
    ---------- Oberdorf ------------ Popp -----------
    Huth ---------------- Bühl --------------- Däbritz
    With this being the team MVT sent back onto the field for the 2nd half. Seeing Germany going head to head with Spain's 4-3-3, forcing duels that they could actually win, to produce more errors/turnovers from Spain's all important mid-fielders.
     
  2. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #377 Batfink, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Everything I've seen also sounds like most people have already given up on this team too; seeing the style of football on display as not only highly underwhelming, but far removed from what they would typically expect from a team ranked so highly.

    But I will say for all of MVT's erratic team selections, and the players ridiculously inconsistent/lethargic mental focus, they've also shown a persevering like demeanor at times as a group, that's seen them find ways to win matches that could have been very different.
     
  3. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #378 Batfink, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Even if I like other people don't truly enjoy watching any of it, this ability to persevere often being a positive trait of talented but struggling teams capable of gaining big results when it matters most. Meaning for all the visible regression towards showcasing critical flaws once again, I still can't discount them from having a legit chance of winning this tournament....

    Not when I already predicted MVT potentially having far more trouble with technically strong/tactically stubborn teams like China, and Spain, during this WC. Knowing I've seen them look even worse with Neid, still winning Euro's and Olympic Gold...:cautious:

    So we'll see how they do versus South Africa, checking MVT and the players for any signs of potential progress before the knock out stages. With the options available to her, meaning all it takes is MVT eventually stumbling into something that finally works, to make things appear very different for Germany's hopes of WC success.

    Of course with that reliant on factors like MVT finding a forward line that can more effectively create/score goals using quicker transitional play. Or MVT simply recognizing a more cohesive system that generates more efficiency from her players as a collective.
     
  4. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I think Germany will go far, just not good enough to win the WC. Perhaps reminding me more of those 1980's Germans teams that were critically panned, but somehow managed to grind it's way into the finals.

    Disappointment for me right now, if it's not the half empty stadiums that Germany's playing right now too(you would think it better since they border France) or the FIFA police heavy hand of not allowing replays over the internet

    than it's MVT vanity project(but guess all coaches are). As much as I like the youngsters, they weren't able ot do much previously under Meinert/as well as MVT had decided to so far discard my two faves, Dallmann & Elsig, especially/instead for for the slowpoke, Hegering who I doubt will be able to handle the more elite fwds of the world.

    but at least MVT not as one dimensional as other coahes, using different tactics everytime as well finally a player like Buhl who can at least get behind defenses(though she's not a goal scorer)
     
    blissett repped this.
  5. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    For all of peoples complaints about this team, it's always important to acknowledge they've had to face two of the most tactically resilient sides in this tournament, and still found a way to not only win, but do so not conceding, while producing double the amount of shots on target than their opponents on both occasions too.

    So we'll see what happens when they play the weakest team in the group for their final group match, and try to better gauge where this squads chances reside headed towards the knock out rounds.

    But on the evidence I've seen at this tournament, and knowing how teams can build over a series of matches, I still believe anybody suggesting this Germany wnt "not good enough to win the WC" is a throwing around some pretty bold statements...:cautious:
     
  6. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You always complain about the playing style of this one team, but somehow still goes on to ask why disillusioned German wnt fans aren't headed to France in large numbers...:rolleyes:

    I mean, did you not see this teams pre world cup advertising campaign..?


    Yeah... the past few years of the wnt hasn't exactly seen these girls able to amass the most positive of national sentiment lol. Making it odd having anybody here wonder why the traveling support for this team underwhelming.
     
  7. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Their the reigning female Olympic champions in football, for a nation who's residual memory of their wnt consists of European Championship failure, and the kind of poor football that's lead to them losing to Iceland at HOME.

    LOL, even when they've won their opening matches at the WC, facing two opponents who would be tough no matter when they faced them, the media still completely unconvinced their wnt currently in France to do anything but disappoint.

    This being even more amusing to somebody like me, as I watching replays of what I feel another tactically naive wnt; but for the first time in a long time, actually containing what I feel to be enough talent, and the potential balance, to go deep in a WC..:confused:
     
  8. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #383 Batfink, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    If this game really worked like that, why are you constantly promoting teams with players who've done NOTHING of significance in youth, or even club football...?

    lol, this entire squad have all come through Meinert's U-19/20 teams as youth level Euro/WC winners... so what does "they weren't able to do much previously under Meinert" even mean...?

    Hegering's faster than Elsig...:coffee:. I like Elsig too, but if your simply talking about speed and agility, I think you need to take another look at how Elsig plays, as her speed isn't better than Hegering, and it's not even what makes her good either.
     
  9. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    After seeing her randomly use a 4-4-2 vs Spain, starting Däbritz in CM, and Oberdorf out wide, I've finally given up on the notion ever seeing MVT select a team that makes any sense lol.

    But witnessing the 2nd half vs Spain where she used Popp in a CM role, might this be a signal of the first opportunity for MVT to start using Bühl, and Schüller, as more dynamic forward options..?

    With 45 mins, Bühl instantly contributed more to the attack than Popp's entire WC as a forward lol. So maybe MVT makes another change, and puts Popp in CM to provide playing time for Bühl and Schuller...:unsure:
     
    blissett repped this.
  10. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I was surprised to find out that the German men's aren't even ranked in the top 10 anymore, so why can't the giant broso fans give the #2 woso squad a try?(lack of fan involvement, whether it's on message board or at the half empty stadium, shows how bad it is)

    I think Germany will go far, but it's only because been two games so far, by just almost everybody's been underwhelming(all cept to 2 North American teams) & then of all things, Italy looking like the best Euro team, lol/

    Perhaps the most bizarre thing about the tournament though is Argentina. Here's a squad, that tied Japan, lost to England by one goal, yet just two month ago, lost to the 170th ranked college team, in America is quite shocking.

    then of all, I hate that the US destoyed Thailand & the ridicule celebrations, but then used it's 2nd tier squad that neverless scored 3 goal in the 1st half vs Chile(fronted by one of the best gk's) only to be told to show mercy & take it easy on Chile for the rest of the game(where the US actually starts passing the ball, lol)

    it just seems like who ever said that whoeve coined the phrase 'the world is catching up' is an idiot! I like to see the spoiled brat US team put into place, it's just weird that in 4 years time, international woso has gone backwards, instead of front wards
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #386 Batfink, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    Keeping true to form, I see they've managed to waste 12 shots on target vs the weakest team in the group.. but hey, they still won without conceding a goal, so...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I said the quality of play during the last WC was pretty low, but nobody wanted to hear talk of any kind of regression back then, and would simply repeat the positive mantra of women's football continued growth.

    Plus lets not pretend like you really care about this topic anyway lol; as you often prefer to talk about factors that make the USwnt appealing, and are only whining right now because the USwnt came under the slightest of criticism lol.
     
  13. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Batfink, I think you're right when pointing out that this team will probably reach pretty far into this tournament although it won't be pretty... :unsure:

    I think Hegering's a formidable player with a good view of the game, passing skills and build-up play, comfortable with carrying the ball up to the midfield and cool and calm under pressure. Also strong in the air

    This team has yet to concede a goal, but let's see if they can keep that up for the next game :whistling:
     
  14. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I haven't seen the match vs South Africa, but the stats seem to read exactly the same as they looked after the first two group matches.

    So I don't think MVT's really solved any of her current mid-field/attacking selection problems for the next match, meaning you could be correct with the idea this teams only route to success being an ugly one lol.

    Hmmm... but just like Doorsoun though, I don't see her showcasing the necessary concentration levels right now to remain faultless for a full 90 mins match.

    This also goes for the entire team too, who I feel are strangely all playing like individuals in need of genuine motivation, or some form of psychologist assistance to simply be more energized/aggressive over the course of an entire 90 mins.
     
  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    They've shown they can go through periods of a match where they shut down opponents, reducing them to very minimal offensive threats.

    But if this pattern also continues with Germany also going through periods of a match where they lose focus, providing opponents opportunistic 1v1's with Schult, they won't be keeping their 0 goals conceded stat for very long lol.

    I mean... honestly... the way I've seen them create chances during this WC, I feel this team should be able to score more goals, and alleviate some of the pressure for the defense to remain faultless.
     
  16. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Well I watched the game and as you pointed out, Hegering/Doorsoun struggled in parts of the 2nd half where Germany were deep, so I think there’s definitely concerns there... but knowing that I rarely see matches these days where defenders are a 100% flawless or where the defense is perfect, I honestly feel line Hegering and Doorsoun are really good but that might be the aftermath of the Peter and Henning legacy lol
     
  17. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #393 Batfink, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    It's gone way past concerns now... it's just pure frustration.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #394 Batfink, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    HOW MANY CHANCES DO THEY INTEND ON WASTING?

    In the first half using minimal pressing, the score should have been 5-0 before half time; and this was with them barely giving their all to dominate the proceedings.

    And then once they scored again in the 2nd half, your saw almost every player wearing a white jersey basically stop trying to do anything correctly anymore, allowing South Africa to have more possession, and create chances they would have never seen versus an opponent wanting to showcase true superiority.
     
  19. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I mean... they literally started playing pointless back passes to Schult for most of the 2nd half, showing how incapable the players are maintaining good possession within MVT's constantly changing system.

    Lol.. like they don't even know their at a WC..:confused: Exerting minimal effort for most of the match vs South Africa, having only demonstrated a mix of fear, and short adrenaline filled bursts of effort, for small periods over each of their first two matches.

    They've managed to win all three matches versus the type of annoyingly stubborn opposition past coaches have struggled (see Neid's last WWC/Olympic group stage...:speechless:), and done so by not conceding a goal... and yet it still feels like this team finding new ways of underachieving.
     
  20. Core

    Core Member

    Sep 14, 2012
    My House
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I've watched the game sporadically so my comments may not be accurate.
    It's a good win with 4 goals. Could have been more. However, there are still nagging issues that needs to be sorted out.

    The defense is worrying. Always giving opponents one or two 1v1 with Schult per game. It hasn't backfired so far but it won't last forever. Better opponents will take advantage.

    I've not been too impressed with Hegering. Yes, she had a header that leads to the 4th goal vs South Africa, and she can pass the ball better than Doorsoun but she's slow and out of position most the time I've been watching her. Doorsoun, despite her terrible passing is an excellent defender and a must keep in the starting 11. Just ban her from making passes beyond 20 yards;). Honestly, her speed and last dish tackling was one of the reasons why the team has kept a clean sheet so far.

    I don't want to see Schweers again if Simon is fit:).

    I have been impressed with Gwinn. I was very critical of her after the 1st game but she has done a good job afterwards.

    I'm not sure about Magull. I wanted her in the starting 11 but she tends to loose the ball very often. I would prefer Oberdorf. She's young and inexperience but she makes the right decision almost every time she has the ball.

    Our passing and possession game is not good. Too many bad passes. Most if not all of the top 10 team at this world cup are comfortable passing the ball.

    Missed chances. I don't know how they're going solve that but they better do before the start of the knocked out stage.

    This team can go far and maybe win it if they put their act together. I just don't think it's going to be pretty:)...just ugly plays and wins
     
    blissett repped this.
  21. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @Core you aren't saying anything that hasn't already been said by many other people watching this team play...

    And this is frustrating seeing MVT finally bringing a player like Elsig into the squad, and then after one match versus Japan ridiculously turning to using Oberdorf as a secondary CB option...:confused: Making Hegering's constantly poor positioning a bigger concern now, as it's one of the factors Elsig does better, even if she the slightly slower player.

    So even if this defense significantly better than the awful mess that was Neid's Olympic team, or Jones Euro team, your not wrong highlighting how erratic the CB's continue to appear within a group of players still struggling to resemble a genuinely cohesive high level team.
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    As you've seen during this WC, Magull's strongest attributes are her ability to make late runs into the oppositions penalty box (score goals), or create for others with intelligent forward passing that enables her team to behind the opposition defense.

    But stuck in a more box to box CM role during this WC, she's honestly struggled to provide what she's done best during friendlies; meaning your not the only person to think Oberdorf the better CM choice if Popp still MVT's main striker with a 4-4-2.
     
  23. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I think this comes from the German wnt still not having a clear and stable system for all it's various players to truly understand their roles.

    I mean.... Marozsan should be Germany's version of Sawa, but does anybody want to see Marozsan return to this side, or know where she'd even play lol. What other wnt has this kind of issue for one of the best attacking players in the world...?
     
  24. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #400 hotjam2, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    I finally watched the game, but felt it's more of a filler without much value, considering that SA hasn't won a game in their last 16 tries, lol. So why didn't MVT play her 2nd stringers for at least this one?
    Well my theory thinks that was that MVT once again displayed new tactics, so perhaps she's keeps her cauldron of just 14 players instead of trying to teach/adjust all 23 players to her new tactics.
    1st half seemed back to more slower deliberate/clinical pace, possibly to give the players a rest from a more grinding, transitional one? But in the 2nd half with the game well hand, MVT put as many as 5 runners right up to the SA backline, guessing experimenting for a desperation move in case ever Germany falls behind, later in the playoffs. Thus(with less defenders) gave SA it's only real chances of the game. Hopefully we wouldnt see that tactic again, lol.

    Dallmann played really well for the 30 minutes in there, just love her penetration moves. Glad I was able to see it as it might be her last chance to get on the playing field(as I'm not sure if she fits in MVT;s plans) & guessing it's the end of Hendrich as MVT obviously prefers Gwinn?

    things might of just gotten easier as Italy(me thinking it was a fluke) winning their group means two more powerful teams(Australia & Brazil) are send to the much tougher side of the playoff brackets. GER might play another dud at round of 16, then don't know what happens after that, but Holland/Canada will stay on the same side as well. Got to say I'm really impressed with Canada's switch to a very clinical, precision type style(got the feeling Batfink might even blush if he ever sees them play, lol). Then all you gto left is Holland(who seem weak on defence) & one from the England/Japan confrontation moving over to this side of the bracket.

    btw..........noticng that Michael Platini got arrested for at least a day. Remembering how he refused the shake hands with German players after having his Frenchie butt kicked out of the WC semis, twice, back in the 1980's. Wonder if her made it hard on Germany when he rose into prominant roles within FIFA?
     

Share This Page