Orange, the rebuild starts now

Never say never

 

Well first of all starting de Roon and Babel over van de Beek and Promes consistently is a huge problem...and regardless of whether or not we have a 'legit' striker those two decisions made us worse in every game, and we looked better in every game after those subs were made in.

The hype around de Jong and de Ligt is getting to be a bit much, and putting undue pressure on them. As mentioned above Frenkie dwells on the ball way too much, and still takes a long time to make decisions. He invited pressure on the backline (which is thankfully managed by van Dijk) throughout the tournament and I think he still has exploitable holes in his game that are going to get him in trouble at the top level unless he fixes them. de Ligt has unfortunately had a highlight reel of mistakes/missed opportunities that end up with goals in the back of the net. He could have stopped Lucas in the CL, he made a mistake against England that easily could have caught us (though that pressure was brought on by de Jong if you watch the play), and even in this game it's the same. These two are elite talents but are not yet elite players but they are treated as such.

Honestly, de Jong is not better than Wijnaldum. Currently van Dijk and Wijnaldum (forever underrated) are the best players on the team. Still, for a team in transition this tournament can be viewed as nothing but a success.

 

Malen/Stengs - Janssen/Lammers/Venema - Depay

Wijnaldum - Van De Beek - De Jong

Blind - Van Dijk - De Ligt - Karsdorp

Cillessen

This is what I'd like to see in the next year

 

Wijnaldum prefers to play as an attacking midfielder but his best role is as the 6 to be honest. His combination of strength on the ball, economical use of the ball, dribbling, transition game and understanding of space makes him perfectly suited there in the modern game. People go on about van Dijk not getting dribbled by this season (fantastic accomplishment to be sure) but typically the players that get dribbled by the most would be midfielders as they have the most defensive interactions with players with available space behind them to exploit (especially midfielders for top teams, as they tend to be pushed higher up the field). Among midfielders who played at least 2000 minutes this season Wijnaldum was tied with Axel Witsel as the midfielder who was dribbled by the least; people just don't respect how good he is at understanding and recognizing space and attacks. Liverpool's record with him at the 6 is actually better than with anyone else there.

Promes is a fantastic player and in his prime, and really should get more usage than what he's been getting for club and country. Dumfries is also better than people are giving him credit for in this topic.

Right now our best XI is probably this:

Promes - Memphis* - Bergwijn
de Jong - van de Beek
Wijnaldum
Blind* - van Dijk - de Ligt - Dumfries
Cillessen*​

I left stars where we need to see an improvement in the near future. Memphis is a great talent but he is enigmatic. Bergwijn I think will improve. We will see what the next generation will bring but this team is still in transition and playing very well.

 

I rate FDJ as the best midfielder anywhere .. I would agree that Wijnaldum is a fabulous player and grossly underrated.

 

He's not. There are many better midfielders as of right now; he has the talent to be a top midfielder though and is definitely one of the best young midfielders in the world, but I wouldn't even have him as the best under 23 midfielder in the world. Bentancur, N'Dombele, Aouar, Valverde (my personal fav), Lo Celso, Tielemans, Rodri, etc. etc. there's a lot of talent there. If he can iron out the holes in his game and improve his decision speed I think he has a shot at being one of the best.

 

Belarus need to do us a favor today

 

Northern Ireland now ahead of Belarus 1-0. This most likely means we have to beat NI twice now

 

And we're up 8-0 against Estonia... A-game in the making, yeah

 

I saw this coming unfortunately. Three consecutive late wins for Northern Ireland and now there's a lot more pressure on us Normally I wouldn't be so concerned, but that late home defeat to Germany and the experience we had in the last qualifying campaign (with Sweden suddenly beating Luxembourg 8-0 etc) still haunts me to some extent.

But well, a lot depends on Germany. If they beat Northern Ireland twice then even if we lose in Germany, then a win and a draw against Northern Ireland should really be sufficient.

 

Why are we comparing Aouar and Lo Celso to de Jong? Totally different type of players. Also Tielemans, lol. De Jong is in a different stratosphere. Betancur isn't even a regular starter at Juve and neither is Valverde, who has shown nothing close to what de Jong has shown. Let me know when Valverde gets a run of starts and actually proves himself consistently. De Jong would walk into the starting lineups of all of the above mentioned teams. Rodri is the only one I'd say is on a similar level.

I also hate how fickle fans can be when passing judgement on a player. Everyone has good, decent, and bad games. However, there are also other factors to consider when things go less than desirable. Are the attackers good enough to be making the necessary runs so the midfielders can do their jobs? Frenkie was slow on the ball vs Portugal, but it looked to me like he was constantly looking for an outlet and often not finding any. We were too static. Simple as. Everybody looks bad in such a game.

 

Looks like De Ligt will sign for PSG !!

What on earth is he thinking !??

Thoughts guys ??

 

About the alternate route see my quote below. Also, the Swiss and one of Iceland/France could have to aim for that one ticket as well. Currently League A's play-off semis look like this:

Portugal v. Croatia
Holland v. Switzerland

=> could end up facing Portugal again, this time to decide who goes to the EUROs.

PS if the preliminary draw for Qatar 2022 had gone ahead in July, as first planned, then Holland would have been in a lower pot. With only the group winners qualifying directly Holland could have been in trouble.

UEFA expects to finalize its World Cup qualifying format in (late) September. Most likely, FIFA's ranking must be used for the draw and probably it will be the one published at the end of next year (after the next NL's group stage) or maybe the ranking published after EURO2020. So Holland have been given time to move up the ranking. Can't afford to spill too many points though and if you reach the EURO's you can end up harming your ranking (in case you don't get results there too).

 

Great point O14, but at the same time these guys are now leading our group for crying out loud!!!

(I will now undo my undies)

 

Good, I hope he does.

He needs 3 years in a low-contact league before he signs with Barca or United IMO

 

Totally disagree!!!

Let the guy gain a couple of years experience in Ligue1 and lets where he goes from there.

He's only gonna be about 22 when he's ready for Barca, which makes him exactly the right age

 

We need him NOW though

Plus surely playing alongside/ behind FDJ will suit De Ligt far better than a side like PSG ..

 

You still have Pique ( and that other guy) for the next 2 or 3 years, so whats the rush??

 

The other guy ... Umtiti is crocked and REFUSES to have the required surgery - joker

 

I am not a fan of de Ligt's movement to PSG. I agree, however, about the tense competition for the CB position in Barcelona. They already have Pique who will always be given an edge being one of the "Barcelona kids", aside with Lenglet who had a very good season and world cup winner Umtiti who is really solid and more experienced than de ligt, despite his chronic injury.

I am honestly quite concerned about FDJ, too. Valverde is not the coach you would expect to make him develop properly. I mean, look at Cutinho, Dembele, Malcom, .. etc. Barca seems like a step back in their career. Let's hope Frenkie makes it there.